Fill-In flash - how?

My other camera is a Minolta A2 bridge. The on board flash power can be set at vartious levels - I normally leave it at 1/4 power as this seems to deliver just enough extra light to brighten the shadows.

How do I do this with the istD?

I thought that the whole point of TTL monitoring and on-board flash was that it "burned" for just long enough to produce an acceptable exposure allowing for ambient lighting conditions. There does not seem to be a fill-in setting on the camera and if I follow the instructions in the manual all I get is a very burned out image.

Nor is there any flash compensation which might help..

I have experimented with "hoods" made out of tissue paper but they are not very successful.

In the old days you could go someway to resolving the problem by setting a different ISO to the actual film, but with modern digital even this does not apply.

I could, of course, switch to manual and underexpose for normal lighting and let flash make up the difference - I think - but I am not that good!

It is not a big deal, but sometimes the shadows do need a bit of lighting up.

Any ideas?

Graham

If you're referring to the pop-up flash... you can't set any exposure compensation

With the AF360 and AF540 you can dial in a +/- exposure compensation that does the trick just nicely with the *ist-D.

If I get time I'll see what else can be done with the pop-up.
Matt

i have the ds2 and there 2 exposure comp settings.
in the shooting mode, press menue button.
hit the 4way rocker switch on the camera up one and you're in
Flash Exp. Comp. mode.
hit the 4 way rocker to right and you can set the flash exposere to over/under expose in 1/3 increments.
judging by your post I'd say try -1.7
that is for dedicated flash or built in unit. perhaps you're using a flash unit that is not fully compatible with the digital cameras? they'll go full power.

the other setting is for exposure comp will affect the whole exposure. not just the flash.

Don,
The *ist-D does not have flash exposure compensation. The only way is through the dedicated digital Pentax flashes.
Shame they couldn't have added it in a firmware upgrade
Matt

good morning Matt.
You got your post in while I was typing...lol.
that is too bad about the flash exp comp...on the ist d...but the flash should still give -1 stop fill light in forced flash mode in all but green mode should it not?
beautiful morning here sitting on my patio, guzzling coffee, watching birds.

if all else fails, one could use aperture priority, (if nesc a nd filter too) theres gotta be a sweet spot in any shooting situation where the subject will be ouside the flash's reach, causing flash fall-off to balance with the abient light....

Thanks, folks
At least I have not missed anything or misread the instructions.
Yep, I thought Pentax might do a firmware upgrade - the D electronics cannot be too different (if any) from the later versions. Guess they must have their reasons, but it does seem a massive oversight on their part. To be honest, I sort of took it for granted when I bought the machine, like PASM, etc, especiallly since it did not have those "creative" modes on the dial. Just goes to show that I should read the spec a little more carefully, but it probably would not have changed my decision.
Perhaps an email, to Pentax to see what they say.
Graham

Well if it's any consolation...
The d version is still a better handling camera, by most pro accounts and the built in flash is not a pro's friend, most prefer external units, so it fits well...
you won't regret adding the external flash to your arsenal.
Sometimes when two people try to post at the same time the faster typist wins, I was not tyring to contradict Matt....my post was started before his but posted after his...when in doubt, it's a safe bet that Matt is right.

No problem Don, always worth bashing ideas around

Graham,
One thing I remembered...

Use the pop-up flash, but set the mode to Wireless High Speed Sync (HS) on the body. That'll give you better fill in flash outside, especially with faster shutter speeds (ie above 1/180, or is it 1/125?!)

(the other *ist series can't do that with their popups!)

The *ist-D is also much faster at focusing - it's motor is much "beefier" I like the *ist-DS, not so keen on the pentamirrors of the DL, but the *ist-D is nearly ideal, and the next 10Mp will probably be ace


Matt

Sent a "help" email to Pentax - got a reply to a different question!

Will try again

However, closer reading of the manual - always a good idea, but who does when there is a new toy to play with - reveals something called Hyper mode. Page 91 talks about Slow Speed Sync Mode and setting Hyper mode. Apparently it balances foreground and background exposure using flash and requires a shutter speed less than 150 sec.
Anyone familiar with this concept? Does it work?
Must try it tomorrow, time permitting.

I will also try the hi-speed setting - if I can find it - now where is the manual?

Graham

Graham,
Slow speed sync is for when the light level is low - say you want to get a sunset exposed, but also use the flash to balance the foreground (say a person).

High speed sync is for daylight flash synchronisation where you'd be using a fast shutter speed without the flash. To get it, just pop up the flash, and press the Flash button on the top button until the wireless symbol and "HS" appears on the top LCD. Now the flash output power is greatly reduced and you should find you'll get no problems in using fill in flash (At least that's the theory!!)

Hypermode is where you can adjust either the shutter speed (Tv) or aperture (Av) while in the "P" mode. You can let the camera choose the Av/Tv combination (according to the currently selected program line, of which there are four selectable in the custom menu), or you can override with the thumb wheel or finger wheel. Press the green button on the top to let the camera go back to fully automatic.
Hypermode is really just a quick way of switching from fully automatic into "Av" or "Tv" mode.

Hope that helps!
Matt

Hi Matt
The Hi Speed sync only works with the special Hi Speed external flash - at least that is the theory as I understand it - unless you know something different. Certainly, I cannot get anything using it with the pop up flash.

The slow speed sync offers some solution by going to Manual and deliberately under exposing the image but then supplementing the shot with the pop up flash.

I sent a second e-mail to Pentax pointing out that they had not answered the question I posed - still waiting an answer!

All I want to do is introduce a bit of extra light to lighten the shadows close up on a bright day. I certainly do not want to haul around extra flash equipment.

I guess I will have to go back to the Minolta A2 - at least until Pentax/Samsung release their answer to the Sony(Minolta) Alpha.

Graham

That is also as I understand it. The Pentax HS capable guns (AF360FGZ and AF540FGZ) can use HS Synch when, either attached to the camera, or by setting Wireless HS Synch mode on the camera and having the gun setup off-camera.

Out of curiosity I have just conducted the following experiment involving 4 separate shots in a room lit only by daylight.

Camera set to manual, 125th, f11, iso200, wb auto.

Take a photo of a not too distant object (say, 3 or 4 feet away), it doesn't matter about the correct exposure as long as you can see an image for comparison later.

With flash controls set to normal, take another picture of the same object using the same camera settings, with the popup flash. The result should be a brighter image, as you would expect.

Before continuing:-
In the menu system, make sure that the setting 'Flash in Wireless mode' is set to on. This makes the pop-up flash a wireless master and will contribute light to the composition. With this setting off it's a wireless controller only (for use with off-camera wireless flash - AF360FGZ & AF540FGZ) and does not contribute any reasonable amount of light to the composition. It does however contribute a tiny insignificant amount as it is used to fire the wireless slave when the shutter is released.

Press the flash control on the top plate until W appears, then take a third photo using the same settings, result should be the same as shot 2. If the image is darker, you have the pop-up flash set as a wireless controller only. Change it to be a wireless master as detailed above.

Finally, press the flash control button on the top plate so that both 'W' and 'HS' (Wireless High Speed Synch mode) appear in the window.

Take the 4th shot, the result should be much darker than shot 3.

The shutter speed so far has been less than 1/150th so shot 4 did not use W-HS Synch mechanism anyway, even though it was turned on.

Now wind the shutter speed up to 1/180th, your resulting shot ought to be similar to shot 4, but a bit darker.

In W-HS mode, the light from the pop-up is greatly reduced and in my opinion, would not serve as a fill-in flash at all. The useful light output in W-HS mode is similar to that in Wireless Controller mode, almost none.

In conclusion, Wireless High Speed Synch mode can only be used with a compatible flash unit. The built-in flash reverts to a wireless controller only when this mode is selected even if no other external flash is used.

Fill-in flash ought to be possible with the pop-up flash but not if the 'A' symbol is showing in the top plate flash window and the ambient light is sufficiently bright to prevent the flash from firing, which could be the case if you are using the 'green' programmed AE mode. In this case, one of the other exposure modes should be selected. The A symbol does not appear in Tv, Av, or M modes, cannot be turned off in 'green' mode, and can be turned on/off in (P)rogrammed exposure mode by pressing the flash control button on the top plate.

Bottom line . . . to do it properly, you need an AF360FGZ or AF540FGZ.

Ooops! I should've tried the pop-up in W-HS. Yes, as you say Peter it just ends up being a trigger for the remote when in HS mode.
To be honest, it's much more flexible having an AF360 (or AF540, or both ) because you end up with wireless remote flash, exposure compensation etc etc. And the results really are excellent in HS mode for fill-in. I used the AF540 for two weddings in that mode and produced very natural results with no problems at all!
Matt