Dumb Question: I can't drag the shutter. Why not?

I want to be able to shoot with my external flash in manual and with the camera using a slow shutter speed. It sounds simple, yet I can't do it.

Indoors at an event yesterday, I wanted to use 1/20th shutter (K7) and 1/4 flash power (AF540). I had my camera on manual. I tried to set my flash to manual. It would refuse to do it; it would set itself back to PTTL stubbornly every time. I was ONLY able to use my flash in manual if I set my camera to X-Sync, so I was stuck with a 1/180th shutter. Gah!

I tried to do this with my K10/AF360 combo. Same result. What am I missing? I know this has to be possible, but why can't I make it work?

Can any of you get your camera in 1/20th and manual flash power? If so, how are you doing it? This issue is driving me mad(I've asked this question in the past, haha)

Why cant you simply reduce the flash's output on the gun itself, or wont it go as far as 1/4 power?

EDIT; just had a look at my 360, you can dial in up to -3 stops.

It sounds like the camera is setting itself to a flash mode as soon as the flash is attached. There must be a Custom Setting somewhere to enable what you want.

Failing that, take the flash unit off the camera and trigger it with the built in flash or with an IR transmitter in the hotshoe. This will give better modelling anyway as the flash will be off-axis with the lens.

Just get an AF200T of ebay.... accurate manual power setting down to 1/8th on manual. I checked 1/4 power on an AF400T with a Shepherd 1/3 stop flashmeter and it was 1 1/3 stops down instead of 2.

Ideal for most situations, but in this case, the flash has to stay attached to the body (I'm bouncing the light anyway, so it looks fine). I had two camera bodies with flashes around my neck while I was running around getting shots. It would have been difficult to then also have the flashes off camera.

Thank you for the suggestion, but I already own 6 flashes, and my AF540 and AF360 are the best I've used. I'd rather not buy any more. I'd rather make these work.

How about a simple flash bracket - the bracket attaches to the tripod amount and there's a handle with a cold shoe on top to hold the flash. Lots of these on eBay I'm sure.

This is difficult to explain, but I'll try. In PTTL, Pentax flashes never contribute enough light. In a dimly lit room, I can set my AF540 to fire at +1 power(maximum!) in PTTL, and it still contributes nearly NO useful light to the photograph(Bouncing the light off of the low white ceiling). The camera is still bumping its ISO up to 3200 and beyond. It's useless. BUT if I put the flash into manual (1/4 power or something), I am then able to get a beautifully lit scene using only ISO 400.

This is why I refuse to use PTTL for any situations - because I can never make it do what I want. I don't know if I'm just that useless with it, or if it's just that useless. It's one of us, to be sure!

[quote:3496ace15f="johnriley]
How about a simple flash bracket - the bracket attaches to the tripod amount and there's a handle with a cold shoe on top to hold the flash. Lots of these on eBay I'm sure.[/quote]I own tons of those, yeah. It is a solution, yes, but I'd really like to find a solution to this problem that doesn't require me to use those very unreliable shoes. I always run into technical problems when I've got one between my body and flash unit.

I am totally sceptical about the whole P-TTL thing, I recently bought one of the Samsung 3something or other guns. In most cases it works very, very well. A test shot of an openened black foam lined flight case with silver trim and locks was 3 stops under-exposed on the K20 and perfectly exposed on the DS!!! Why?

However being the sceptic I am, I always lock the ISO down to whatever I think appropriate and mostly use flash on 100% manual settings - its easier, honestly.

But I guess you know that, however, could you have inadvertently set the flash settings on the camera to underexpose?

I can with my, it's a K10D with the AF540FGZ

I can't get it the flash in M mode with rear-curtain sync, only P-TTL.
Might that be it?

The silver trim most likely.
P-TTL is very sensitive not to burn the highlights.

I believe we ran on this problem before on the forum.

Matt advice was very help full, have no idea any more what the solution was.
At least fixed ISO will help a lot.

So why not simply use one of these link

It will reduce the communication between camera and flash to the most basic level, you can then set either to how you like obviously dont buy one that has the Pentax confuguration of contacts

Turn the camera off.
Turn the flash on and set to Manual Mode.
Set the camera to Manual Mode, then turn on.
The flash will remain in manual mode.

The flash should remain in manual mode.

Hmmm, re-read your post and missed that you had the camera in manual.
Sounds like something is wrong. It seems that I can actually set the flash into Manual mode even after the camera is already on with my K7. I recall the K10D required the half-backwards power-on sequence.

With half-backwards power-on sequence do you mean what you describe above?
I never found I had to do that with my gear, can switch to different modes with the camera or flash while both are powered on.

I have the same situation with my AF360 and my K10D as Amoringello describes above - it won't change out of P-TTL while mounted to the camera (and the camera's switched on), but if I take it off the camera, switch it to manual and re-mount it it will stay in manual mode.

Not sure why that should be but I've just come to accept it tbh...