Adobe DNG Converter queries

To set the scene:-

Equipment: I use a Pentax K10D, initially shooting in DNG format due to the minimal support for the .PEF's it produced at the time. I also use a Fujifilm F810 P&S camera and save in Fuji's .RAF (RAW) format.

Software: I use a mixture of Lightroom (1.4) and CaptureOne (4.01) for RAW development, both of which claim to support the .DNG format. I've recently downloaded the latest DNG converter from Adobe.

Objective: I'm looking at reducing file sizes to save space and backup time.

My dilemma:-

1: Fuji .RAF files are not supported by CaptureOne (C1) so I converted them using the standalone DNG converter. C1 can't 'see' them. C1 can open my .DNG's from the K10D with no problem.

2: Lightroom opens .RAF files with no problem but it can't 'see' the .DNG conversions of these files made in 1: above. They are not available for import.

3: Lightroom has it's own DNG converter and .RAF files saved as DNG's by it can be 'seen' and imported into Lightroom, but not C1.

4: I have some image files in 'in camera' .DNG format from the K10D from a time before its .PEF was widely supported.
I assume these are uncompressed as they are about 10Mb each. When I run these through the DNG converter (DNG > DNG compressed), the resulting file is the same size or a few bytes larger. This is true of both the standalone and Lightroom versions of the converter with compression turned on.

I haven't tried older versions of the DNG converter.

Any ideas? I'm at a loss.

My conclusions so far are that C1 has a bug causing both .DNG versions of .RAF files to be unusable and the standalone DNG converter has a bug that Lightroom can't deal with. Also, neither DNG conversion methods is able to compress in-camera DNG's from the K10D.

Probably not the answer you want to hear, but with all the time taken to convert files etc. would it not be easier to buy a large hard drive?

Or even to shoot JPEG instead. It's issues like this that are one of the many reasons I have avoided RAW capture.

You're right of course, when thinking only of space, but the larger the files, the longer they take to backup too. I backup to tape and it took almost all day yesterday to backup 100Gb of files to 2 x 50Gb AIT2 tapes, and verify them. I wasn't watching it all day of course, but I'd still like to be able to cut that time down and not have to change tapes twice if I can help it. I know I could archive some of the older images, but I don't particularly want to and ALL hard drives eventually fail if not replaced, most, catastrophically so.

Storage space is actually only a secondary issue for me. I have enough free space on my 450Gb RAID array, and I have a 250Gb and a 200Gb external USB2 drives. I have a 1Tb external drive on it's way from UK which I may well just use for backups and keep it in my fire safe.

OT: I work in the IT business selling and maintaining servers, workstations etc. Over the years I've developed a (healthy) paranoia about losing data, especially my own.

I've been looking at deploying a NAS box and tried FreeNAS. Hopelessly unreliable, so I'm looking at a Netgear ReadyNAS solution now.

Anyway, it'd be rather nice if the software that many of us use would actually do what it claims to do. I've opened a support case with Phase One, let's see what they come up with.

I did shoot JPG for a few weeks when I got my first Pentax DSLR, a *istDS. Then I tried RAW, and persevered with the learning curve, and agreed with most that the flexibilty of RAW made it worth sticking with it.

I now shoot only RAW, mainly to give me the insurance of that extra little bit of lattitude to rescue an image because I (and in some cases, the camera, but not often) screwed up somehow.

I've read, with interest, your many past posts on the JPG v RAW debate John. You clearly prefer JPG, I much prefer RAW. Neither is right or wrong, just what suits.

UPDATE:

I took some test shots in .PEF, imported them into Lightroom, then converted them to DNG with Lightroom's converter.

Now when I view the image 1:1 in Lightroom, the message "An unknown error has occured" appears in the top of the photo. The dialogue is of the same type as the rendering dialogue when it needs to create a higher resolution preview.

Interestingly, by using Lightroom's own DNG converter, all previous adjustments made to the image are retained. Something that I guess would not happen if an external converter is used. Shame it doesn't work.

EDIT: I joined the Lightroom forum to research this, and find that many are experiencing the same problem. The problem seems to have been introduced with version 1.4. Adobe are aware of it. Going back to version 1.3 apparantly doesn't help.

Looks like there are a few bugs in Lightroom 1.4, adobe has pulled the upgrade and recommends unistalling anf reinstalling 1.3.1.

From Adobe Lightroom update page......

I reverted to 1.3.1 yesterday and everything seems OK.

This is what PhaseOne had to say about my Fuji .RAF file issue

I am using a Pentax K10D and shoot in DNG RAW all the time. At the moment I have photoshop CS but it will not open my raw files. I want to play with the raw file rather than converting it to TIFF as I would like to archive in RAW format. I am thinking about Photoshop Elements 7 and I will be getting a trial versioin to test it out with the DNG format but for now I am using picasa 3 to view and print my DNG files straight from the sd card. Picasa also lets me modify the pictures in DNG and re save still in DNG format. Not much use for detailed manipulation but better than nothing until I decide which Photoshop to get. So far my choices seem to be Lightroom 2, CS3, PS Elements 7.

As far as I am aware, Pentax .PEF, or any RAW camera, files are essentially read only. You can't modify them. Neither Lightroom or Adobe Camera RAW or Picasa or Capture One makes any changes to the original file. All of the changes made by these programmes are stored in extra files so that they can be recalled later.

If you have Photoshop CS, you can upgrade to CS4 for around £170.00

Don't forget to update yout Codec's
Microsoft DNG Codec--On adobelabs.( See your DNG Files in Windows)
Adobelabs ---Camera Raw 4.6.(Used by CS3 & Lightroom )
Pentax --- Camera Raw (Pentax Raw)

While you're deciding which app to get, try GIMP..

http://www.gimp.org/downloads/

Several here use it, and it's free, so if you decide at a later date to purchase one of the above, then it doesn't matter. What it does give you is a chance to see what a high end application can do. Once you know what you like, you can either stay with GIMP, or take that knowledge on into whichever one you eventually decide to purchase.

As Peter says, you don't modify the file itself, certainly not a PEF anyway (I assume that DNG is the same).. what you actually see on screen is a *.jpg produced to display the data in the RAW file.. I think there are actually three *.jpgs of large medium and small produced, but X-Factor's on so I haven't got a chance to get a link for you now..

The RAW file captures lots and lots of data about the scene you took the picture of, hence the large file size. This is why when you finally export the RAW to a *.jpg, it's still the same size (give or take) as if you'd shot in *.jpg originally. You just have a lot more parameters stored in the RAW file to change the final image, than if you just used a bare *.jpg in the first place.

(I stand to be correted of course)..

Cheers

Liam

Lightroom 1.4.1 dated the 4th April 08 was the bad one , The good one is 1.4.1 DATED 10th of April 08 this is 100% OK..