A little Pentax, maybe?

I had a little play with a Samsung NX10, today. I was in Jessops, just seeing if my local branch has started stocking Pentax again, as had been reported here, recently. No Pentax in sight. My eye was caught by a cute little Samsung, tho'. The NX10. I stood looking at it for a while. A salesman asked if I would like a closer look. I said no thanks, I wasn't going to buy one and was just passing the time while lady friend was in New look, or Primark or some bloody place!
On my way out, I noticed that there was nobody else in the shop. He must have been bored. I walked a few units down the Mall, slobbered over the pictures in the window of Ann Summers for a bit, then went back. Still nobody in Jessops. I go in, and this time, salesman, with a broom in his hand, practically insists that I take a look at the Samsung. I felt sorry for him, so just to give him something to do for a few minutes, I let him unlock the display case and hand me the NX10.

It's a clever little thing. Has a big screen on the back, but when you lift it up to look through the viewfinder, the screen automatically switches off, and the viewfinder switches on. Take the camera away from your eye, and the viewfinder shuts down and the rear screen comes on. Smart, eh!. The camera is very small, but looks like a Dslr, with a 'hump' on the top. It has an APS-C sensor and more megapixels than you can shake a stick at. The salesman seemed to know what he was talking about, too. Head office are obviously training them better, now.

Now, I'd quite like a small interchangeable lens mirrorless camera as well as my istD and have been considering buying a Panasonic lately.
This has set me wondering if Pentax will be bringing out such a camera system soon. Obviously, I'd rather have a Pentax one, than any other make. Perhaps I'll wait a few months and see if Pentax produce.

If they do. I hope it won't be like the Samsung. I'd much rather that Pentax joined the Micro 4/3 club for any mirrorless compact they might produce. Sticking an APS-C sensor in one would make it too much like existing Pentax SLRs. Something really tiny would be good. A Pentax version of the Panasonic GF1,(but with an optical viewfinder as well) would definitely get my money.
What are the chances, d'ya think?

If the market for mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras takes off, then probably quite a good chance.

I think the biggest drawback is still the EVF. It just isn't fast enough yet, even though the new Sony SLT ones are getting pretty good. It means that these cameras are more like improved bridge cameras than compact DSLRs, and in that context does the cost make them poor value? After all, a K-x or K-r is better and costs less.

The other factor is that they are not pocketable - the lenses are too big for that. So we still need to carry a camera bag, albeit it a smaller one maybe.

we are always having to keep our eyes and minds open....

holding the camera up to your eye may become a thing of the past...
so evf and penta prism/mirror veiwfinders may yet get go extinct...
I see little point in having Both an eyelevel viewfinder and a lcd view finder when you can skip the lcd and eye level and put in hdmi out and leave it to your smart/iphone, ipad or other device for live viewing.... think augmented reality... imagine wearing glasses that can display a video image, or see through with video overlays, or tether to your camera to shoot pics.... sometimes something comes along that forces you to re-think where the technology COULD go.

Yes. That's all true, John, though the EVF in the NX10 looked pretty good to me, albeit for the few minutes I played with the camera in the shop. The sensor size is the let down for me, and the reason why I wouldn't buy the Samsung. It makes the camera pretty much just like a slightly scaled down version of a Dslr. Not different enough to my istD. I reckon that if your going to make a truly pocketable micro camera, that will take other lenses, you shouldn't compromise. Which makes using the Micro 4/3 system pretty much essential. The use of the APS-C sensor in such a camera system, kind of defeats the point, really. It's a compromise. It also means that C mount lenses can't be used, which is something I'd like to do.
If these type of cameras do take off, it'd be good if all manufacturers standardised on the 4/3 system.

Do you get one of these with it?

but talking of alternatives to the regular DSLRs we love.....

I went to the extreme and bought one of these...


A Sony T-900











I spent a lot of time thinking about my photographing habits and realised that I was either shooting overtly or covertly. This Sony thing is the ultimate of discretion. It looks like a mobile phone and allows me to snap candids almost anywhere. It's caveats are the batteries last no time, and thus I always carry a few spares, and IQ is rubbish, but not unusable if 'art' rather than IQ is the priority, at anything above 400ISO


My point being that If I'm going to shoot overtly then I cant' see the point of not using your regular DSLR. I purposely chose the Sony becuase of it's ultra compactness and no sticky out lens that most compacts sport.

Then what is the point? There are lots of neat little Pentax compacts with excellent images quality that can happily be carried anywhwere. I know that because I do carry them anywhere and they are good.

You can get an adapter for the NX10 so you can use your Pentax lenses on it .

The Samsung NX100 looks much more compact. I hope Pentax comes up with something similar, and I hope they also go with APSC sensors to maintain the use of normal DA lenses via an adaptor (the Samsung version lacks the electrical contacts AFAIK). The K-5 sensor would be nice!!!

Pentax have yet to come up with a compact camera whose IQ really convinces me.

The only time I would consider now a '4/3' camera if I could get more than 15MP and 100% waterproof of up to 30m out of it.
I still use a Nikomos with the external Flash on holidays when diving and would nothing more then replacing this one with one that I can use as a 'normal' camera as well as an underwater camera, but I think by the time they come along I am no longer diving
You can get a nice Pentax compact that is weather/rain proof but so far as I know there is nothing that goes down to 10-15m at all.

Yes, but I can use my Pentax lenses on my Pentax. You can also get an adapter to use M42 lenses on the NX10, but again, I do that with the IstD too.

I suspect that most of the people buying this new type of camera are the kind of people who like to mess about with other kinds of lenses on them. That is the strength of these cameras. Adapters exist for all kinds of legacy lenses. Mr and Mrs Average point and shooter are going to be happy with their fixed zoom lens compacts. The whole point of these cameras is their adaptability, combined with the smaller size.
Putting the APS-C sensor in this type of camera is a mistake, I think. Better to go the other way with 4/3. The larger sensor makes C mount lenses unuseable. Leica R lenses won't work either. They, and just about all other lenses are adaptable to Micro 4/3. A far greater choice at the wide end, with C mount.
If I were to buy one of these cameras, it would be body only. I have no interest in the lenses that come with it. And I reckon that's what most buyers of Panasonic G1 and GF1s do, too.

Be careful buying Samsung There are still GX10's and 20's
about under 2 years Warranty which they can't repair due to not
having parts or replacement stock.

They made a big thing about the 2 Year Warranty in their advertising.
The ASA and TS should be investigating.

We all have different priorities but I reckon for most existing Pentax users, a body which plugs-in as seamlessly as possible to the existing Pentax lens line up would be a key feature. Otherwise there is no advantage over a Panasonic or Sony Evil unless Pentax do something pretty bl**dy spectacular

And I'd be tempted towards a high quality compact over a micro-4/3 camera - some compacts have larger sensors than that!

Really? Only the APS-C compacts like the Sigma and Leica and some but not all of the Ricoh modules. Other than that, the 4/3 sensor is very much larger than that in any other compact.

My experience is that the results from my GF-1 rival those from K-7 up to at least ISO800 and possibly 1600 - and the shadow noise from the Panasonic is less objectionable and easier to process. I would expect the newer Panasonic cameras to be better still but wait to see the results. If you were to talk about colour and tonality, however, I would agree the Pentax does a better job - especially in JPEG.

As for the idea of using a compact instead, well I agree that in bright light and low ISO, the difference in IQ may be pretty small.

But even with the m43 sensor you can play with depth of field and selective focus in a way that is extremely difficult to achieve or even out of the question with smaller sensors - this is the reason why I personally would not buy a small sensor camera again. I find the m43 sensor strikes quite a nice balance between enabling selective focus but also giving just a little bit more depth of field than APSC. So you can use the lenses wide open with higher likelihood of properly focused shots, and you get to keep the ISO a little lower as a result.

Also interested in the comment above about "if the market for mirrorless takes off". Most industry commentators seem to think it already did over the past year, and there have been rumours that Pentax may join in over the course of the Spring.

My view is that currently the mirrorless interchangeables appeal to at least two different audiences:

(1) people who are upgrading from a compact and don't necessarily want the bulk or perceived complexity of an SLR. Yes, the NX10 and Lumix G cameras are a reasonable size when you put zoom lenses on them, but they are still rather smaller than their dSLR equivalents (even the 18-55 kit Pentax lens is huge compared to the Lumix 14-45). But perhaps what Panasonic have got right for this audience that we under-estimate is the touchscreen interface. To have a capable camera with an articulated touch screen which is second nature to the IPOD generation (and even allows you to point to the bit of the photograph you want to be in focus) is I think a more significant way forward than we might appreciate - it's a very different experiece to the traditional approach of the Kx/Kr, and I suspect more appealing to many younger buyers. Read the recent review of the GH2 in the Lumimous Landscape to see how the handling of these cameras even appeals to some pretty serious professionals....

(2) more experienced photographers who want a capable second body when they don't want to cart around an SLR. I agree with the comment above that a fair number of this audience see the cameras as a cheap way to in effect get a "Leica-lite", by combining a capable body with some great legacy (usually prime) lenses.

I do hope Pentax get in on the act soon, because I think these cameras will be more important than we think in the future market. Personally, I agree that m43 would be a good way for them to go - and if I was them I would start by aiming for a "high end" weather resistant body in order to differentiate from the pack and appeal to traditional Pentax market. There are a number of m43 users who are desperate for a WR body and lenses (esp fast lenses). In fact, if Pentax were able to produce at a sensible price a m43 size rival to the fast Zuiko 12-60 lens (which is not available in m43), I think they couldn't make enough of them to meet the demand.

jonSchick.

Ooh! - You've got a GF1!.. Just the fellow I'd like to talk to!

May I ask if you use your camera with adapters and other lenses, particularly cine and M42 lenses? If so, what do you think about them. Do you also have the clip on EVF? Some say it's not too good. Do you miss having a viewfinder, or is it easy to manually focus on the screen?
Does it have in camera shake reduction?

Thanks.