A Comment on commenting

McGregNi +2 very well put.

I think that a lot of the time, people want affirmation, not critique.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

But it has to be pretty special in that case.

Don't get me wrong, I don't often post pictures because most of my pictures are rubbish, and I usually know why they're rubbish. And I don't want affirmation except for the good ones

Top man

I don't comment much because I'm afraid it'll come across as rude or offensive. I self-edit my own stuff to a ludicrous degree and reject 99% of my own shots because I'm horribly picky, and I'm just as picky with other people's - in my own mind -. But the thing is it would probably appear as unkind so whilst I look and study and think to myself 'what would I have done differently', I don't put the thoughts on paper for reasons above.

Exceptions are when I see something I really really like - then I'll usually say something. Because it's nice to praise. But in all honesty that's very few photos. Heck I only have 100 favourites on Flickr and I bet I've looked at thousands, if not 10s of thousands in my time.

One thing though is that you can't always expect comments, because if there's always comments about every photo then those comments become pretty meaningless. Sometimes in critique nights I ask myself what was the point of this critique because all they do is describe the picture for 2 minutes but don't actually say much else. Which isn't that useful I personally think. So rather than a lot of comments I'd prefer fewer but comments that actually say something useful.

We have this same discussion over at another forum where I judge some stuff and people say 'why don't they make more comments when judging'. Well the truth is there's not always a useful comment to be made, and rather than saying something just for the sake of it I often prefer to say nothing. More signal, less noise.

I also think people would be more inclined to offer critique if the poster made some effort to include a little critique of their own - something along the lines of

"I was trying to achieve X, but not sure it worked, what do you think?"

or

"I took this, but it doesn't show X, how could I process the image to show Y better"

Whereas as often as not, a picture gets posted, not very sharp, not very well exposed, no hints as to what was intended, and my reaction is "erm, where do I start".

So mostly I don't, because it would simply take a long time. And a genuine, if strong, reaction, that is posted without extensive sanitisation will often be interpreted by some as an ad hominem attack even if it isn't any such thing. If I don't have time to add smilies, remove anything that sounds negative, then I mostly won't bother.

______
Edit:

I also never comment on any image that someone posts with an "I really like this, what do you think?", or indeed "400mm, 1/20s, handheld".

I post a fair few images, both on the Gallery and on the Forum and I do want constructive criticism on them if they are not right, or people to point out things that they do like if they think the images are right. I always try to do this myself when I comment on other peoples shots, but I am conscious, especially when commenting on Gallery images, that sometimes my 'constructive criticism' may come across as me being a bit harsh.

There is often better feedback received on images posted on the Forum than there is on the Gallery and I think this is fair and to be expected, as the Forum is the right place for this. There is not as much CC offered on here though than there is on many other Forums, I think this may be because PU attracts photographers with a diverse range of experience and capability, whereas some other sites only attract more experienced photographers.

I don't necessarily think that it needs the photographer to include critique of their own as suggested by ChrisA above, this may be useful but at the end of the day we all know whether or not we like what we see and we should be big enough to say what we think, without being rude or making comments which could be construed as personal insults.

There are a few people who regularly offer their opinions and who regularly ask for critique (QuestionableCarrot, McGregNi to name a couple) and this is good, but it would be better if more of us were open to posting our images and giving critique on images posted by others.

Regards
David

I don't know if you thought I meant this, but just to clarify, I'm not at all suggesting that a self-critique should be mandatory in any way. As I said, I just think that in quite a few cases, comments are more likely if we're given a bit more information about what the poster is after.

Otherwise it's just another picture, and unless it's extraordinarily good or bad, there's no particular reason to comment.

Yes, agreed. But almost anything except the most anodyne can be construed as a personal insult if someone is determined to take it as such.

And the less sanitised the post, the more likely that someone will take it as as an insult if the comment isn't complimentary.

I mean, we all know that Mike-P's aircraft photography is rubbish (nowhere near as good as mine, which is brilliant - the only reason I don't post more examples is so as not to make him feel bad). But that doesn't make him a bad person.

I think it should be the norm that any critique or opinion, as long as it is confined to the image and not the individual, should be welcomed. But expectations vary rather too widely for a consistent approach. Different posters have different motives. After a while you get to know the expectations of the individual, but until you do then often it doesn't seem worth offering an opinion.

Personally I am very difficult to please. I am an exceptionally harsh self-critic and welcome the most forthright critique of my own images. I don't need praise, I just need to improve.

There are probably too many that clearly regard their images in high esteem and get a bit huffy when others see things differently. The best approach really is to ask for honest opinion and forthright critique, if that is what you want. Of course it's nice to get wow great stunnings. But it's much more useful to get hints on how to improve.

If you receive few comments then I think it is a fair assumption that the images are either rather too routine or not much good. So silence can speak volumes.

Love it!

Maybe so but it dosen't tell you how to improve does it

I agree with Dr O's comments above and I'm always very glad when Adrian makes comments on my images because they are invariably well informed, useful and relevant. It is rare that Adrian gives glowing reviews but this is actually the most useful aspect of his critique as you know that the points made are well considered and usually are spot on. The same is true of Alan's (Blythman's) comments, so please keep commenting on my paltry efforts guys!!

Regards
David

I think I only post images when I get momentarily over excited...... I forget about the lack of ability and talent!

The quality on show generally is far, far better than anything I can produce. If I do put anything up I want criticism as I don't put any up anywhere else and to see if anyone else sees the exposure etc the same way I do.

From what I've seen it's generally all friendly and constructive? I don't comment much if at all as I don't know enough to say anything!

It doesn't but you can compare your images with those that are generally highly regarded and see if you can determine the differences. If you can analyse the reasons why yours is an inferior image then you will improve. If you think in comparison yours is just as good then you will not. Just use the search engines on 1x, 500pix, look at images that do well in competitions, editors choice images on certain websites. There is much you can learn by critical self-analysis.

You in this context really means 'one'.

I get very disappointed with comments like "nice shot" and "well done" when the images are blatantly sh!te. The object, I thought, of the forum is to give honest critique and ideas on how images could be improved if they are bad.

Practice, practice, practise