Full frame DSLR ?

I see every so often on here that some people would like Pentax to bring out a full frame dslr so as I know nothing about them I have a few questions.

1. If all other manufactureres are bringing out/already have a full frame camera why have Pentax not?

2. I have a few AF lenses that are supposedly full frame, will they work better on such a camera and if so how?

3. The older screw mount, K mount and A mount lenses that I have from Pentax, are they full frame or not?

4. Why is full frame better and is it worth the rather high price increase?

thanks.

1-3:
the original full frame cameras mass produced were 8X10 inch glassplate.

Why isn't anybody cryng for a sensor that size?

4:
sensor size is not even on the radar, for me when I go to buy my next camera.
Image quality. Price/performance=value.

javascript:emoticon('')

I want High def video capabilities in a dslr, and don't need full frame for that.

Don't think all other manufacturers have full frame - Nikon and Canon do but I don't think Sony or Olympus have one.
Donut

This has been raised a number of times...
Because it's quite a niche market (although the Canon 5D has brought it to a wider market), and very expensive to produce. Pentax did produce a FF 35mm and ditched it. They also produced a large frame size MF but put that on ice. We'll have to see...

No, they'll probably be worse. When you use a FF lens on an APS camera you are using the centre of the lens - which is usually the sharpest.
Additionally, because CCD/CMOS sensors sites are actually little "wells" that capture photons you have nasty vignetting problems when the lenses are not well collimated. Light at the edges generally does not have a 90 degree angle of incidence - film was forgiving on this, but digital is not so. There are plenty of articles on the 'net about the Canon 5D requiring some seriously expensive (and heavy) glass to get the best out of it.

All FF. They were designed for 35mm film.

Because you can go super wide more easily, and because the sensor sites are larger (resulting in less noise). (NOTE: Samsung say they have increased the photo-site size on the K20D sensor with some nifty silicon design)
The down side is that you need a longer telephoto. So for many the APS is actually an advantage
Lenses designed for APS are also smaller and lighter
And is it worth the price increase... I'm not sure. If the factor is twice - then maybe. If the factor is more than that, then maybe not. For example, the SMC-DA 12-24 is a fine lens indeed. But some may still need wider (I don't).

Also note that some of the APS lenses (like the 12-24) do give perfectly good results on film - with a little vignetting at the wide end.

I wouldn't hold your breath for the FF option though
(You're better off getting good glass and going out to take photos )
Matt

Thanks.
I wasn't holding my breath for a FF camera though, I am still learning to use the K10D and couldn't justify the expense if they were to bring one out.

Just interested was all.

It most definately is interesting, especially with the 3 companies involved!

Samsung are making a full frame sensor, that we know, and given how their 1st sensor in a DSLR has been received, it should be a cracker! We also know that they are agressively after market share, have the capabilites to produce the required electronics, and have the money and desire to go for it. Samsung are planning a FF camera, so cannot see any logical reason why Pentax won't have the same camera too.

Pentax have the pedigree from the camera side, as well as their reputation for excellent lenses. They have the engineers capable of producing a remarkable camera, and the resources needed are there with their new owners and partners.

Hoya have the capabilites to get the lenses out, and this is the most profitable side of the business, and again they have the resources to do it.

The only problem is getting them to do it! I can see pressure from Samsung to get the lenses made for their FF model, I'm sure Hoya won't mind the profit from that, I can see Pentax engineers wanting to show off how good they are, not mention the loyal customers who want them to do it, and so the list goes on...

All the pieces of the puzzle are there, it just needs the nod to put the puzzle together. It is possible for them to produce a FF DSLR with say 28MP, 6FPS, better AF, better AE, bigger LCD, big bright viewfinder, whatever you want really. The capabilites are there, the technology is there, the people needed to do it are there, so the way I see it, it is going to happen, the only question for me would be when.

Ben has posted on the other pentax forum that he believes a FF camera will be announced at Photokina in September. Seeing as though we know he was under an NDA, he may or may not have had some inside info on this, and it could be all speculation.

Personally, I'm not the type to shout out 'I want FF or I'm leaving Pentax' like others have done, I'm just interested in good quality photos, my K20D does that just fine. If / when it comes out I won't know if I'll want it til I know what it is, what it does, how much it will cost etc. (Actually I'll probably just buy it if it is shiny enough being the gadget freak that I am!)

I can see the benefits for wide angle work and lower noise that FF could bring, but can't see why this issue seems to consume so many people so much. Message to those people is stop worrying about it and go out and take photos with the excellent kit you already have! You have 2 months til any announcement, use it to take photos!

So IF Samsung brought out a FF camera and Pentax held back would the Samsung still be Pentax mount?
Can't see Pentax sitting back and watching that.

Yes, it would be. It's the main reason why and how I think Pentax will have a FF camera. Just slapping a Pentax badge on it would help to make it sell.

We all know Pentax and Samsung are partners, we all know that Pentax are the camera specialists, Samsung are the electronics specialists. Can't see Samsung releasing their FF camera without Pentax having their finger in the pie!

What all the 135 format lovers forget (135 format is the correct description for the format commonly known as 35mm. or "full-frame" is that Pentax has discontinued production of almost all 135 format lenses, and it would be wholly uneconomical for it to resuscitate them.

Those lenses were designed for production on machinery that is now obsolete, and has probably already been thrown out. Modern lenses are produced by a much more automated, and therefore much cheaper, process. Therefore, to get back into 135 format, Pentax would have to redesign and tool up for a whole new range of lenses. They haven't yet had time to recoup the costs of producing the DA lenses.

However, Samsung has long pockets, and might have developed a new sensor that is much cheaper than existing designs. If so, and they are hungry to usurp Canon's place, they might be happy to underwrite a very costly switch to 135 format.

Those who have invested in DA lenses would not be pleased.

But I don't think this is likely. I wouldn't switch to 135 format even if the camera body were free. I don't need more pixels, I don't need more weight, and I don't want to buy more disk space and a faster computer. AND, I only have one DA lens.

Mind you, Benjikan said it, so it must be true.

G

I've said it before, but I think I don't really want a full frame DSLR any more. Maybe at first I wanted the ultra-wide lenses, but since the 12-24mm and 10-17mm arrived that's just fine.

The Tokina 11-16mm looks interesting as well and I wonder if we will ever get a Pentax version.

As for FF Nikon have just brought out the "cheap" £2000 FF body, Sony are planning one soon and I suppose that Pentax would follow if the demand proved to be there.

Just like when the DA range arrived, slowly expanded and then started to get under way properly, a FF series of lenses could just as easily follow.

I used to doubt that it would, but with the need to constantly introduce and sell new products driving companies on I don't doubt it quite as strongly as I did.

it would actually make more sense to drop samsungs new sensor into the 645d. if they put some serious computer power in there as well.
hell then I'd be happy to drop some money on a new portrait lens, and body.
but I still want 60-200 fps image capture, and an export to 1080p hdv.

I'm not bothered about more pixels (than the K20D has, anyway), but I quite like the idea of big fat ones that collect lots of photons. Noiseless, high ISO would be fab, although we'd need AF systems that could see in the dark to make sensible use of it.

Of course it won't be free, and the funny thing, is that those that want FF will lash out all that money on it, and then they'll discover that their lenses are only 2/3 as long as they were.

And unless having these big fat photosites makes a huge difference to the amount of noise (and Ok, the ISOs that the D3 can go up to does suggest that it might eventually), they'll still want long fast glass.

And then they'll realise that long fast glass is a whole lot more expensive than short fast glass.

I can't see that except for a very few with very deep pockets, there's any point in spending all that money on big sensors and great big tubes with dinner-plate sized front ends.

Well, it's always fun to read his publicity.

Just had to put that one in, as I have a friend who always says 'I read it in The Sun, so it must be true'

Think John probably put my point across better than I did but with the need to constantly introduce and sell new products driving companies on I don't doubt it quite as strongly as I did.

I'm not trying to make a case for it, go through the reasons why it may or may not happen, the lens line, who would or wouldn't buy one, why it could be a marketing disaster, wether it would make sense to us, how annoying it would be to those with existing kit, where it would fit in a product line up etc. I just agree that it will happen.

The simple fact of the matter is that companies have to come out with new exciting products to tempt people to upgrade. Everyone I know has a TV yet over 5 million a year are sold here, and don't even get me started on mobile phones!

Can't really see lenses being a problem even if there is an announcement in September, it probably won't have a release date for a further 8 months or so. Pentax are already using old designs for new models (DA* 200) that are FF. If they are that committed to APS-C why not re-design that one to be a lot smaller / lighter / cheaper? Also the original designation for the 60-250mm was D-FA, which are full frame. Not only that in less than 9 months, 4 of the new Pentax lenses I have bought are full frame, so are 2x 2nd hand ones. If Samsung want to do it, which they do, they have the money and inclination to use it.

The main reason why I am interested in it is for the future of Pentax, where it leads for future products, the fact that Samsung have the money to do things, the technology that will trickle down into cheaper products. Wether you agree or not, have an argument either way, can't see it happening, want one or not, can't see Pentax doing it, the fact is Samsung are. It will be K-Mount. It will be good for us.

We'd never have guessed

I find it quite remarkable that the DA* 200 and DA*300 are not described as 'digital only' on the pentax website; it could probably explain why there is this delay with the 60-250 DA* zoom..., I've only ever seen it described as a DA* - for it to be D-FA I gues it would need an aperture ring like the two macros..

I'm not too bothered about what happens in the next few months, in the meantime I have a fabulous K10D to play with along with an equally fabulous DA*16-50.