*istD as wireless controller AND fill-flash?
Posted 22/06/2005 - 10:26
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Works a treat
There's a custom setting "Flash in Wireless Mode" that controls whether the pop-up flash is used. The default is "On" - which means it will fill in for you. Set it to "Off" and the pop up is used merely to trigger the AF360.
You can set the exposure compensation on the AF360, but not on the pop-up. However, when I've used it the results are just great! (Though I would say, upgrade your *ist-D to firmware 1.12 if you've not yet done so. Although it doesn't say on the update release notes, all the problems that I did experience with the AF360 have disappeared now. It just works )
One other thing you must do is set the right slave channel on the AF360. The AF360 supports both "dumb" and intelligent slaving. On the dumb mode it will just fire (and this is superb for use with pocket digicams ). Can't remember exactly, but I think you have to set "Slave 2" on the AF360 to get proper wireless P-TTL flash. I'll correct myself later when I get back to my manual...
Matt
There's a custom setting "Flash in Wireless Mode" that controls whether the pop-up flash is used. The default is "On" - which means it will fill in for you. Set it to "Off" and the pop up is used merely to trigger the AF360.
You can set the exposure compensation on the AF360, but not on the pop-up. However, when I've used it the results are just great! (Though I would say, upgrade your *ist-D to firmware 1.12 if you've not yet done so. Although it doesn't say on the update release notes, all the problems that I did experience with the AF360 have disappeared now. It just works )
One other thing you must do is set the right slave channel on the AF360. The AF360 supports both "dumb" and intelligent slaving. On the dumb mode it will just fire (and this is superb for use with pocket digicams ). Can't remember exactly, but I think you have to set "Slave 2" on the AF360 to get proper wireless P-TTL flash. I'll correct myself later when I get back to my manual...
Matt
Posted 22/06/2005 - 15:18
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Matt
Please! Please! when you "clarify" gems like this let us know (the manual is breif to say the least). I now realise I was too hasty in swapping my AF360 for the 50MZ, think I may enter some of these weight lifting contests in the near future. I've got a little windfall coming in thenear future and the AF360 is top of the wanted list, AGAIN.
Please! Please! when you "clarify" gems like this let us know (the manual is breif to say the least). I now realise I was too hasty in swapping my AF360 for the 50MZ, think I may enter some of these weight lifting contests in the near future. I've got a little windfall coming in thenear future and the AF360 is top of the wanted list, AGAIN.
Cheers
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.
Posted 22/06/2005 - 15:42
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Brian,
LOL! Well, I did actually keep my AF360, and I was using the 50MZ5 more... until I upgraded to 1.12. Odd that every problem disappeared! Even my SMC-F 50mm/f1.7 that was consistently half stop over exposed is now the same exposure as every other lens I have. So, sorry to say, but now the AF360 gets more use!!
Of course, the AF360 can do flash exposure compensation. Even my latest Metz foot can't do that... or high speed sync...
...and I'm trying to collate all this information and get it written up properly... (sorry for the delays Pete!!! Need a 48hr day!! )
Matt
LOL! Well, I did actually keep my AF360, and I was using the 50MZ5 more... until I upgraded to 1.12. Odd that every problem disappeared! Even my SMC-F 50mm/f1.7 that was consistently half stop over exposed is now the same exposure as every other lens I have. So, sorry to say, but now the AF360 gets more use!!
Of course, the AF360 can do flash exposure compensation. Even my latest Metz foot can't do that... or high speed sync...
...and I'm trying to collate all this information and get it written up properly... (sorry for the delays Pete!!! Need a 48hr day!! )
Matt
Posted 22/06/2005 - 15:49
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Whoops! My mistake!
Page 37 of the AF360 manual says you must have "Slave 1" for properly wireless for the MZ-S (and hence the *ist-D too).
Page 49 describes how to set the "Slave Mode Setting" (this is different to the wireless channel setting). It's a bit confusing when reading the manual, so here's a summary:
Slave 1 - proper wireless, controlled flash with MZ-S/*ist-D/*ist-DS when in wireless mode. Make sure the wireless channels also agree. Will not fire with any other flash or bright light - this is a digital wireless communication.
Slave 2 - "dumb" slave. The AF360 will trigger off any sudden light. Because of its design, if you are not expending more than half of the flash power, it will function correctly in this mode with all modern pocket digital cameras
Oh yes, and just double check the body's flash setting. I've been caught out more than once when I put it into red-eye reduction wireless flash by mistake and wondered why there was a significant delay between the preflash and the real flash! Now I make it a point to double check the top LCD of the *ist-D and the flash mode
Matt
Page 37 of the AF360 manual says you must have "Slave 1" for properly wireless for the MZ-S (and hence the *ist-D too).
Page 49 describes how to set the "Slave Mode Setting" (this is different to the wireless channel setting). It's a bit confusing when reading the manual, so here's a summary:
Slave 1 - proper wireless, controlled flash with MZ-S/*ist-D/*ist-DS when in wireless mode. Make sure the wireless channels also agree. Will not fire with any other flash or bright light - this is a digital wireless communication.
Slave 2 - "dumb" slave. The AF360 will trigger off any sudden light. Because of its design, if you are not expending more than half of the flash power, it will function correctly in this mode with all modern pocket digital cameras
Oh yes, and just double check the body's flash setting. I've been caught out more than once when I put it into red-eye reduction wireless flash by mistake and wondered why there was a significant delay between the preflash and the real flash! Now I make it a point to double check the top LCD of the *ist-D and the flash mode
Matt
Posted 23/06/2005 - 08:56
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Dear Matt
Quote:
Slave 1 - proper wireless, controlled flash with MZ-S/*ist-D/*ist-DS when in wireless mode. Make sure the wireless channels also agree. Will not fire with any other flash or bright light - this is a digital wireless communication.
Is your mentioning the *istDS here is just a mistake, or do you have experience that this camera is capable of wireless communication the same way as the istD? As far as I remember, the manual doesn't say so (but I would be happy if it could).
Slave 1 - proper wireless, controlled flash with MZ-S/*ist-D/*ist-DS when in wireless mode. Make sure the wireless channels also agree. Will not fire with any other flash or bright light - this is a digital wireless communication.
Posted 23/06/2005 - 09:43
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No, I don't have any experience with the *ist-DS.
But the manual states on page 153 that the AF360FGZ provides "Wireless flash" and "High Speed Sync".
Page 155, 156 has the section "Using in Wireless Mode".
BUT, I can't find any mention about not having the pop-up flash fire in wireless mode... however, page 146 describes pop-up flash exposure compensation. I'd suggest setting that to "-2" and leave the AF360 as the main source of light. (Incidentally the *ist-D cannot do flash compensation with the internal flash... shame.)
(Just some other points while I think of it - if you use an "A" series lens, or set the aperture ring on an FA/F series to anything other than automatic, then P-TTL is not available, and the flash fully discharges.)
Matt
But the manual states on page 153 that the AF360FGZ provides "Wireless flash" and "High Speed Sync".
Page 155, 156 has the section "Using in Wireless Mode".
BUT, I can't find any mention about not having the pop-up flash fire in wireless mode... however, page 146 describes pop-up flash exposure compensation. I'd suggest setting that to "-2" and leave the AF360 as the main source of light. (Incidentally the *ist-D cannot do flash compensation with the internal flash... shame.)
(Just some other points while I think of it - if you use an "A" series lens, or set the aperture ring on an FA/F series to anything other than automatic, then P-TTL is not available, and the flash fully discharges.)
Matt
Posted 24/06/2005 - 11:03
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As an *istDS user who has just purchased the A360FGZ Flashgun I would query what 'Mattmatic' says about the possibility of using this combination in 'wireless mode'. It would seem to me on reading carefully the *istDS manual on the subject that 'wireless mode' is only possible if using two A360FGZ flashguns with one on camera and one 'remote'. Indeed in a 'Memo' on page 156 of the istDS manual it categorically states 'Wireless mode is not available for the built in flash.. What I cannot seem to ascertain from the manuals is wether the A360FGZ can be used remotely as a slave triggered by the camera's internal flash. I would be glad if anyone can give me a definitive answer to this.
Posted 24/06/2005 - 11:42
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I stand corrected
You will be able to trigger the AF360 using "dumb" slave mode "2". The AF360 can be set to "A" mode so it will regulate the amount of light - but you only really have half power available because you need power for the two flashes (the preflash and the real). You can, of course, set the AF360 to manual mode, and set the output power to something less than 1/2.
This approach works with any camera - as I mentioned I used it with a pocket Canon S30 for some time - with great results!
Hope that makes sense.
Matt
You will be able to trigger the AF360 using "dumb" slave mode "2". The AF360 can be set to "A" mode so it will regulate the amount of light - but you only really have half power available because you need power for the two flashes (the preflash and the real). You can, of course, set the AF360 to manual mode, and set the output power to something less than 1/2.
This approach works with any camera - as I mentioned I used it with a pocket Canon S30 for some time - with great results!
Hope that makes sense.
Matt
Posted 24/06/2005 - 17:01
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Hi Matt
Many thanks for your reply. My post was not intended to 'shoot you down' but as a recent purchaser I was only quoting what I had read from the very confusing camera manual. Your answer to my second question is very helpful. Now I will have to do some testing to see just what is possible using the A360FGZ as a slave to the internal flash. Incidentally I see from the manual that this flash gun can be used 'remotely' from the camera by means of an adapter which plugs into the hotshoe on the camera and connects to the A360 with a cable. Have you any knowledge of using this and if so is it worth purchasing.?
Many thanks for your reply. My post was not intended to 'shoot you down' but as a recent purchaser I was only quoting what I had read from the very confusing camera manual. Your answer to my second question is very helpful. Now I will have to do some testing to see just what is possible using the A360FGZ as a slave to the internal flash. Incidentally I see from the manual that this flash gun can be used 'remotely' from the camera by means of an adapter which plugs into the hotshoe on the camera and connects to the A360 with a cable. Have you any knowledge of using this and if so is it worth purchasing.?
Posted 25/06/2005 - 08:15
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(No offence taken )
You can buy the extension cable (the "5P" adaptors), but they do work out rather expensive. They all come as separate parts - hot shoe adaptor, cable, and flash adaptor. It doesn't give you much length (unless you buy the very long cable), and even second hand they end up costing between £60 - £100 for the set.
You do get full functions from the cable extensions.
IMHO, you're better off buying another AF360 and using full wireless - it's much more flexible
Matt
You can buy the extension cable (the "5P" adaptors), but they do work out rather expensive. They all come as separate parts - hot shoe adaptor, cable, and flash adaptor. It doesn't give you much length (unless you buy the very long cable), and even second hand they end up costing between £60 - £100 for the set.
You do get full functions from the cable extensions.
IMHO, you're better off buying another AF360 and using full wireless - it's much more flexible
Matt
Posted 13/08/2005 - 17:01
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Hi Matt
Again the owner of an AF360FGZ and yes there is a marked difference with the 1.12 upgrade, have not been able to under expose any test shots in P-TTL.
Need a bit of clarification regarding wireless mode.
Again the owner of an AF360FGZ and yes there is a marked difference with the 1.12 upgrade, have not been able to under expose any test shots in P-TTL.
Need a bit of clarification regarding wireless mode.
Quote:
There's a custom setting "Flash in Wireless Mode" that controls whether the pop-up flash is used. The default is "On" - which means it will fill in for you. Set it to "Off" and the pop up is used merely to trigger the AF360.
Ok! I've set everything up as you suggest but the popup flash still fires, is this correct.
There's a custom setting "Flash in Wireless Mode" that controls whether the pop-up flash is used. The default is "On" - which means it will fill in for you. Set it to "Off" and the pop up is used merely to trigger the AF360.
Cheers
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.
Brian.
LBA is good for you, a Lens a day helps you work, rest and play.
Posted 13/08/2005 - 18:39
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Wireless mode does not mean radio! The flashes communicate by flashing, so when you press the shutter the RTF will flash some coded instructions to the 360, and the shutter will then open and the 360 (only) will fire in anger.
George
PS: If you brush up on your Morse, you'll soon get the hang of it.
George
PS: If you brush up on your Morse, you'll soon get the hang of it.
Posted 14/08/2005 - 17:19
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Hi George
Think this is a bit of play on words by Pentax, 99.9% of the population would not expect to see any light if you described something are wireless, wirefree would have been a better description in my opinion, but then you could argue that they are both variations of the same thing, just different frequencies, visible elecromagnetic radiation having a wavelength between 400 & 700nm (nanometers) and invisible elecromagnetic radiation IR, Heat and Radio having a wavelengh of >700nm and UV, X-Rays & Gamma Rays <400nm.
Actually I though the emission in wireless mode from the popup could be used to fire a monolight fitted with a slave sensor (Multiblitz Profllite Compact 300), so I experimented today and although it fires the monolight it does not sync with the shutter. I assume this is to do with the popup being P-TTL only.
I did find a work around using the AF360FGZ attached to the camera by setting the flash to manual, dial the output down to 1/32 and swivel the head to 90deg where it would not have any influence on the exposure, works a treat.
.-. . --. .- .-. -.. ... / -... .-. .. .- -.
Think this is a bit of play on words by Pentax, 99.9% of the population would not expect to see any light if you described something are wireless, wirefree would have been a better description in my opinion, but then you could argue that they are both variations of the same thing, just different frequencies, visible elecromagnetic radiation having a wavelength between 400 & 700nm (nanometers) and invisible elecromagnetic radiation IR, Heat and Radio having a wavelengh of >700nm and UV, X-Rays & Gamma Rays <400nm.
Actually I though the emission in wireless mode from the popup could be used to fire a monolight fitted with a slave sensor (Multiblitz Profllite Compact 300), so I experimented today and although it fires the monolight it does not sync with the shutter. I assume this is to do with the popup being P-TTL only.
I did find a work around using the AF360FGZ attached to the camera by setting the flash to manual, dial the output down to 1/32 and swivel the head to 90deg where it would not have any influence on the exposure, works a treat.
.-. . --. .- .-. -.. ... / -... .-. .. .- -.
Posted 30/08/2005 - 15:54
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.. / .- --. .-. . . / .- -... --- ..- - / - .... . / ..- ... . / --- ..-. / - .... . / - . .-. -- / .-..-. .-- .. .-. . .-.. . ... ... .-..-. --..-- / - .... --- ..- --. .... / .--. . .-. .... .- .--. ... / - .... --- ... . / --- ..-. / ..- ... / .-- .... --- / . --.- ..- .- - . / .. - / .-- .. - .... / .-. .- -.. .. --- / .- .-. . / ... .. -- .--. .-.. -.-- / ... .... --- .-- .. -. --. / --- ..- .-. / .- --. . .-.-.- / --. . --- .-. --. .
http://morsecode.scphillips.com/cgi-bin/morse.cgi
http://morsecode.scphillips.com/cgi-bin/morse.cgi
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2277 posts
24 years
I've asked this question at the Pentax forum at www.dpreview.com, but got no answer:
As I've learnt from the respective manuals, the *istD does (and the *istDs doesn't) support wireless mode with the built-in flash, i.e., to control an external AF360FGZ unit with light pulses emitted by the in-camera unit.
This is something that the Minolta D7, Nikon D70 and D70s can also do. (Canon models, just like the *istDs and the Nikon D50 need an external flash unit attached for this.) But none of these models are able to use their internal flash as a wireless controller AND a fill-flash at the same time. Would this feature be implemented, you could do nice, balanced flash pictures with your built-in flash and only one external unit.
What I read in the manual of the *istD (p85), I interpret as this camera is capable of doing this! (Again, Pentax seems to be thinking when doing something!)
I wonder, how many of you have actually used this handy feature, and how well it works?
Thanks
drBubo