Thanks for the suggestions. Yea I saw a P-30 last night on ebay. But i have no idea of the date of most of these cameras, though some look great. I think I'd want something fairly modern. My SFXn is an 89. (though I know that's an AF). I was thinking maybe mid 90's and up. And do the later manual models have multi focus sensors like some of the autofocus camera's I read about? Speaking of that I have one pair of brackets on my SFXn and asume it's only got one?
Also what manual equivilent does Pentax make new at this time that's good?

Oops I just re read your post. I wasn't paying close enough attention. So the KM, KX and MX maybe are too manual for what I want.

Wow John. Well I guess I don't really know enough what to ask for lol.

Hmm well for starters one that doesn't have a readout like my centic panel. The kind that has the little round manual shutter speed setting.

I think I just want a lighter weight camera with manual focus, manual shutter speed. As for Aperture, manual at least, (but i guess that's standard), Automatic Aperture would be a helpfull option. Exposure modes would be good down the road, and I have seen some of the minus and plus exposure options on some of the manual types, if that's what you mean. I would still like the DOF preview if possible.
The KM, KX and MX you mentioned. How old are these generally? Do they take good pictures? i see so many cameras on ebay, but don't have a clue.

I like my AF camera, but don't want to struggle with the readout panel all the time. It takes both hands to move it over to manual shutter select, and then move it one setting at a time. It is slow. And it is heavy, maybe because of the fast multible shot options which i never use. i would think manual focus would be lighter too, and I'd like to have the longer focal play that many manual lenses offer.

2 questions.

First of all, what's a good inexpensive manual Pentax camera that can be found on ebay from time to time? I know there were probably many models over the years, and I only know a few of them, from reading about them here, and not much more than the name. I'd like to start keeping an eye out for one, that hopefully wouldn't be too old, and maybe even have some newer options that my SFXn doesn't have. I'm not looking to replace my AF camera, (though I know there are better, newer models for that if I do later). I just want a reletively inexpensive manual camera to play with for now. Hopefully one that takes really nice pictures.
Which leads me to my second question. Did the manual camera's ever come with a depth of field preview button? Mine doesn't have it, though I have read about it. It's not manditory, but would be nice.

fiannor

Hey that's a nifty trick Kimbo! Though I was real carefull and never let go of the lense (and probably won't do it very often, but really neat to see. Thanks.

Sorry if I messed up on my explanation about the zoom numbers. Suffice it to say, "what you said" lol. Anyway I get it now.

I just bid on a KX on ebay so with luck I'll have a reg dop to play with.

Oh just cause it was a cool picture, I printed out the first page of the K series literature, that shows all 4 of the camera types lined up. I set the zoom percentage in the PDF at 100%, for maximum clarity, (though it was real small at that level), and printed it out on my HP 8450. Then I scanned it in my flatbed in a high enough rez to be about half page size, and let a graphics program blow it up to full page. Then I printed it out at high quality on some nice heavy glossy paper. Trimmed it to fit an 8 by ten and framed it. Haven't put it on the wall yet. My mom asked why I would want to frame a picture of camera's, and I told her I think their beautifull. Hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder, (or camera holder
Hope this aint infringing on some copyright Kim C.

Your right Kimbo. I guess the dim light I had checked it in had me thinking the aperture numbers in the centec panel weren't changing more than 5.6
And just now i left the lens cap on lol, yea that makes it hard to see the aperture readout! But taking it into a brighter light, or using the light button on it they are infact aperture listings, (though one was 32 i think and my A only goes to 22). But if the sigma was a "F" only, regardless of what the panel says, doesn't that mean it won't do the aperture itself? I thought now I have been shooting all this time on wide open when in auto "A", but if it shows in the panel maybe not. Ok what does the lack of an "A" on a lense then mean?
As for the 3.5 to 5.6 I think i finally know what they mean. Their a listing of the maximum aperture opening possible, based on the availability of light affected by the zoom. Jeez why didn't they just say that on the box. I guess it's like looking through a tunnel, the other end always looks smaller and is going to set the available dimentions aparent, regardless of actuall size. So the farther the outer zooming lens moves away from the inner, (I assume there's 2 in a zoom), it sets the largest apperture possible regardless of the actual aperture function?
Anyway it's not something that really concerns me unless I need a low light zoom, (does it affect telephoto also, cause their set right)?

Another puzzel revealed, (I think). Learning allot from here, but I must be driving yall nuts.

Hey I finaly figured out part of the mystery. I never had looked for the aperture apearing in the readout after I tried to figure it all out over 4 months ago in the above post. But I happened to be looking at the panel with my 50 mm 1.7 just now and low and behold there are aperture listings. On my older 2 lenses, (the 20 80 sig zoom from christmas, and the 20 to 70 sig that came with the SFXn in 89), there never were any. Just the 3.5 - 5.6 numbers that was also listed on the 20 - 80 box, and they only changed when the zoom was moved. But with the dedicated 50 mm on they show up.

So how come they wouldn't on the other 2? Is it because since they are more complicated or multible lensed that it can't track them? Or is it the amount of light bit based on zoom we covered earlier? By investigating this tonight further I realize the latter sig I bought at christmas is "F" only! It's on the box and lense. I don't get it, the guy never told me it wouldn't handle the aperture in auto. That means when not in aperture mode I have been shooting wide open all the time? Good thing have been learning how to do my own pretty much now.
Wait the older 20 - 70 sig zoom is "AF". And it didn't show aperture either. Yet my 50 mm is "FA" and it did. I'm scratching my head here. I can see the lack of an "A" on the later zoom might have meant it wouldn't confer to the centec panel, (display), but why the former, that had one? Don't tell me reversing the letters makes them different? Or was it the former idea of it being a zoom and so couldn't. I think i need a pipe and an assistant named Watson. Well i could have used the 50 mm 4 months ago when I wanted a lense that I could watch and learn from. Ehh thank god for the internet and you guys.

Glad to have some closure on the A reading/not reading on my display. Always seems to be more questions follow answers, but I feel better knowing my 50 mm can show the f-stop. It's cool watching it change when I flip through the modes, and that's still going to be helpfull, even though i am already shooting in mostly in aperture priority.

Thanks guys.

Thanks.

I understand aperture sizes, and that the larger apertures are the smaller numbers, and vise versa. But aparently on the SFXn there are no aperture listings on the centic read out panel. I can change them on my f-stop ring manually, but in no mode do they ever appear in the panel on top. Maybe they did in later models, and some of yall have that as an option. But there are no aperture readouts in the panel on mine, unlike the shutterspeed. That's not a nessesity, but would have been nice early on.

Hey I know why I thought they were focal numbers. Because there's an F in front of them, (though I know that usualy means f-stop). Ok in my manual it says it's an "F-number/exposure compensation value". Isn't that the kind used for bracketing multible shots? Not something I want to play with yet, but I know my camera has a bracketing option. Maybe that's the use for them.

The reason I thought what you had said were originally focal numbers, was because at 8 and above my f stops are only whole numbers. I've never seen a 13.5 aperture listed on the f-stop ring, (but then haven't seen allot of lenses). I know the difference on my camera between aperture and these other numbers I just don't know what the latter are for, or why they appear in all auto modes. On the box my lens came in, it says F3.5 - 5.6, (after the 28 - 80 mm). And when in any program mode, it displays these numbers as the zoom is used, (and the range in between, 3.5 4 4.5 5.6).
It's not aperture, and I played with it and see now that only changing the zoom alters them, the focus doesn't affect them or the aperture ring. Which means their not some kind of focal numbers like I had first guessed.
So their zoom listings, for what? Are they there to tell me the changes in light ? If I zoom in all the way to 80 it ends on 3.5, and if I back off all the way at it's widest setting 28, it's 5.6

What does this show me, and what use is it?