Zoom Lens- Close Focus Distance

bforbes
Posted 05/09/2011 - 09:36 Link
Does the close focus distance quoted in the specification for a zoom lens apply across it's zoom range or only at the short end. I'm thinking in particular about the Pentax 17-70 f4 which states focus range is "0.28m to infinity"
pentaxian450
Posted 05/09/2011 - 11:38 Link
For some lens, like the Tamron and Sigma 70-300, you can focus to the minimum distance only at the long end of the zoom. For other, it will work for any focal length.
Yves (another one of those crazy Canucks)
Dangermouse
Posted 05/09/2011 - 12:07 Link
This is slightly convoluted thinking and may display a misunderstanding of DOF, but...

Surely on a variable aperture zoom the minimum distance will be shorter at whichever end has the slower maximum aperture? On the basis that DOF extends in front of the subject as well as behind, anyway?

I'd imagine it to be in the order of millimetres but still, it must have some effect?
Matt

Shooting the Welsh Wilderness with K-m, KX, MX, ME Super and assorted lenses.
bforbes
Posted 05/09/2011 - 13:07 Link
pentaxian450 wrote:
For some lens, like the Tamron and Sigma 70-300, you can focus to the minimum distance only at the long end of the zoom. For other, it will work for any focal length.
Are you thinking of lenses with a Macro capability? or does that apply to none macro as well
Algernon
Posted 05/09/2011 - 13:35 Link
Why do you ask?..... Are you using it in a confined
space?..... Don't forget that the focal length changes
as you focus closer

Edit: You already have a 17-70mm... can't you just
measure it?
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 05/09/2011 - 13:37
Anvh
Posted 05/09/2011 - 13:36 Link
bforbes wrote:
pentaxian450 wrote:
For some lens, like the Tamron and Sigma 70-300, you can focus to the minimum distance only at the long end of the zoom. For other, it will work for any focal length.
Are you thinking of lenses with a Macro capability? or does that apply to none macro as well
Those two have Macro.

With all the lenses i have the minimum focus is the same across the zoom range.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
bforbes
Posted 05/09/2011 - 14:00 Link
Dangermouse wrote:
This is slightly convoluted thinking and may display a misunderstanding of DOF, but...

Surely on a variable aperture zoom the minimum distance will be shorter at whichever end has the slower maximum aperture? On the basis that DOF extends in front of the subject as well as behind, anyway?

I'd imagine it to be in the order of millimetres but still, it must have some effect?
I think the manufacturer would quote the minium distance as being in the "middle" of the DOF.

Algernon wrote:
Why do you ask?..... Are you using it in a confined
space?..... Don't forget that the focal length changes
as you focus closer
When using the DA17-70 yesterday I noticed if I was close to the subject, with the lens @ 70mm, it would not lock on to focus. Without moving and setting the lens @ 17mm it would.
Algernon
Posted 05/09/2011 - 14:16 Link
Probably better with MF at close distance.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Anvh
Posted 05/09/2011 - 14:17 Link
The dof is wider at 17mm then at 70mm and the 17-70 is known not to lock on so well at 70mm if i'm correct.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
bforbes
Posted 05/09/2011 - 15:08 Link
Am I thinking about minimum focus distance as given in a lens Specification in the wrong way? I thought it was the smallest distance the lens would focus at, with depth of field either side. With your talk of DOF, you seem to be defining it as the smallest distance anything can be in focus at. i.e. focus distance minus DOF between lens and subject
Anvh
Posted 05/09/2011 - 15:22 Link
I think you're mixing things together a bit.
Minimum focus distance is the minimum focus distanced measured from the sensor, nothing more nothing less.
Dof is another thing not directly related to this.

The Depth of field is more or less entwined with the magnification, the higher the magnification the narrow the DOF.
As for the distribution of the DOF that is also related more or less with the magnification, at 1:1 magnification the distribution of the field is more or less equal but when you focus at infinity more of the DOF will be behind the focus point.

That's the basic though there is more behind it but it's getting quite technical and you don't really have to know that, that's why i use the words "more or less" a lot.
Here is the full read if you're up to it.
http://toothwalker.org/optics/dof.html
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
bforbes
Posted 05/09/2011 - 16:08 Link
That is what I said. The DOF does not come into the equation in order to answer my original question.
Anvh
Posted 05/09/2011 - 16:30 Link
I didn't read that though because you said this
bforbes wrote:
I thought it was the smallest distance the lens would focus at, with depth of field either side.
And that isn't true, DOF doesn't come into play when measuring the focus distance.
So your latest statement is correct

As for the original question, the scale is true for the whole zoom range but there are some variables and tolerances off course so it isn't 100% correct but close enough at least.

As for the Macro capability off some zooms, those mostly only work at the longer focal lengths like Yves said. Those lenses also have scale which go down at those lengths so the focus scale should give you always a fair idea.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
bforbes
Posted 05/09/2011 - 17:45 Link
We are on a language thing here Stephan. I believed I was saying the same thing in both statements.
Anvh
Posted 05/09/2011 - 17:58 Link
Maybe but then i find it strange that you say the thing i quoted from you.
But ah well we're on the same wavelength now.

But just the be sure the distribution of the DOF in regards to the focuspoint is not always 1:1, it's only that when at 1:1 magnification and it goes up to 1:∞ when you focus on or past the hyperfocalfocuspoint.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ

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