Wireless High Speed Sync

I've been experimenting a bit with HSS on the K10D and the SEF-54PZF - the Samsung equivalent of the AF540FGZ.

On the hot shoe, it works as expected.

However, my understanding is that since Firmware 1.1 (I'm on 1.3 now), which added the ability to use the built-in flash as a wireless controller and master, I should be able to do HSS wirelessly as well.

However, if I set the camera to Manual or Shutter Priority, and also set its flash mode to Wireless, it won't let me increase the shutter speed to a shorter exposure than 1/180 when the built-in flash is up.

Any ideas? I have the illusion of having followed the instructions, but it's quite possible that I've misunderstood something.

My experience is exactly the same - the ability to use HSS is lost when the flash is used wirelessly. Having said that, I believe you can do wireless HSS if you use another 360/540 as the (camera mounted) master rather than the built in flash. I'm hoping to be picking up a second flash in the next two weeks so I'll know for sure then.

Yes, I tried putting the flash on the shoe, with the camera flash mode set to wireless, and then I could alter the shutter speed at will.

It's not the end of the world - I doubt if I'll need wireless (or even wired!) HSS very often - but it's annoying nevertheless.

Both the Samsung and Pentax AF-540 manuals explicitly refer to being able to do it, so it's not just a possible Samsung/Pentax difference, not that that's all that likely anyway.

Correct, unfortunately. Miss that feature from the istD which could handle the wireless HSS with the pop-up flash.

I suspect that the wireless highspeed will work with a shoe mount flash on camera and a second shoemount flash off camera.

reason....the built in flash probably doesn't have enough power to fire the control signal, then a multiburst (stroboscopic) Highspeed pulse, in brighter conditions, that would have any effective range beyond a foot or two.

so why include it if it would only fail and frustrate the user?

I'm sure this is true - this specific point is addressed in the manual, where it says, in this context:

"The built-in flash is used for control flash only. It will not be used for the main flash."

As you say, there seems little point including all the instructions on how to use it, if it's not suppose to work.

I'm still hoping I'm just doing something dumb.

Wireless HSS with the camera's flash as the controller is not possible. The on-board flash can't even to HSS so why would it be able to signal HSS and control it?

Well, once all the pre-flashing is over, the camera has presumably done its metering, and told the slave how much power to output, and how many flashes to do during the actual exposure. If the timing electronics are reliable and precise enough (which is what amazes me for wired HSS, let alone wireless), it wouldn't need to control every one of the flashes that takes place during the exposure - they should all happen at the right time.

But what do I know? I can imagine them putting something in the manual that doesn't work, but not something that's impossible .

I seem to remember reading (somewhere) that HSS with the pop-up created havoc for the SR. I wouldn't be surprised if that were true, as creating multiple bursts of flash would create an interesting set of EMC and interference issues.

Whatever the reasons, you cannot do HSS wireless sync with the K10D unless you use a 360/540 on the hotshoe as well.

Matt

I wish they'd just say something doesn't work then, rather than give detailed instructions in the manual telling you how to do it.

I wasted a lot of time earlier in the year, establishing for myself that the stop-down-metering didn't work. I didn't spend as long as that on this, fortunately.

I wish they'd just be up front about what works and what doesn't, and issue addenda/errata to the manual so that the customers don't have to do their testing for them.

I love the camera, but there are some very dark corners of its feature set where the documentation and Pentax's communication is just pants.

Which manual?

The K10D manual says "Hi-speed flash sync" - yes (no mention of wireless)
The K10D manual says "Wireless flash *4" - Two or more AF360/AF540 needed.

So, Pentax added Wireless support for the K10D which isn't in the manual. Bonus (big time) in my book. But there's no mention of the HSS.

If you mean the AF360/AF540 manual then don't forget that these flashguns (or the protocol/setup) were designed for the MZ-S. The AF360 in particular I used with the Z1.

So, actually, I don't see a problem with the Pentax manuals here. It may be initially confusing because some might not be aware of the huge compatibility of the flashgun and think that their camera was the only one

EDIT: And if you mean there's a problem with the Samsung book.... well, what do you expect??

Matt

Well I take your points. But I still think it's very weaselly of them not to update the manuals properly, or at least put unequivocal addenda on their web site.

The K10D manual says "Wireless mode is not available with the built-in flash". But as we know, firmware 1.1 added this feature.

All they said was, "Using the camera's built-in flash, you can now wirelessly control external Pentax flashes. Previously, you needed an accessory flash mounted in your camera's hot shoe, but now the built-in flash can act as a control flash."

Personally, I think if they're going to say "beforehand you couldn't use wireless but now you can", then it's not an unreasonable assumption to that the features described in the flashgun manual will work - otherwise, how are we expected to know how to use them?

But what they actually mean, but failed to say, is "but actually we haven't implemented all the features you'll find described in the flashgun manual, and we aren't going to tell you which we have and which we haven't."

I think this counts as bad communication.

There's nothing much wrong with the Samsung book per se. They've cut a few bits out that refer to the Pentax cameras, which is a shame, but otherwise it's virtually a word for word copy of the AF540FGZ manual.

So did wireless HSS work with the MZ-S?

Chris,
In principle I agree about the addenda... but then that's mostly why this forum is here

No idea I'm afraid... it worked with the *ist-D. But then, the additional problem is that using HSS mode reduces the effective flash power (cuts guide number in half). In practise, this means that wireless HSS outdoors becomes a little tricky because the remote gun has to see the flash as a bright enough source to read the command, but then the whole point of using HSS is because the ambient light is bright... and when the guide number is cut in half it becomes twice as tricky

Whenever I've used HSS I always use two guns anyway - the AF540 on a bracket linked to the camera with the Pentax cabling and the AF360 as a slave. Even then you have to be careful about positioning in sunlight to ensure the slave can see the flash commands of the master.

Indoors, when you don't use HSS, there's generally no problems using the pop-up with a slave gun - so I'm very glad they added that in the firmware update

Matt

No disagreement there!

By the way, did you notice/agree with my fag-packet sums about HSS flashing?

Does it really flash 20-odd times as the curtain-gap crosses the sensor?

Sorry... didn't notice them & can't find them
It has to flash multiple times as the curtain gap crosses the CCD - which is why it's not your normal mode and why the guide number gets cut!
Matt