Where is Photography going???
Posted 14/07/2008 - 17:31
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You've made the image, but to fulfil your vision, not to rescue a shot.
You've made the image, but to fulfil your vision, not to rescue a shot.
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But for me, the manipulation was done to rescue the shot
But for me, the manipulation was done to rescue the shot
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"Here's a photo with good raw material (eg exposure, sharpness), and my vision for it is this... and I'll do x, y, and z to it in order to achieve precisely that."
"Here's a photo with good raw material (eg exposure, sharpness), and my vision for it is this... and I'll do x, y, and z to it in order to achieve precisely that."
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"Here's a photo that technically isn't really very good, and I'll spend ages fiddling about with it to try and improve the contrast/sharpness/removal of distracting background/cloning of burned out highlights etc etc."
Just love the way everyone sees everything differently, one of the reasons I enjoy being here! "Here's a photo that technically isn't really very good, and I'll spend ages fiddling about with it to try and improve the contrast/sharpness/removal of distracting background/cloning of burned out highlights etc etc."
My take on it goes something along the lines of:-
'Need something Ugly for the Ugly comp! er...I know that bl***y building, can't be bothered to go out and shoot that. Ang on, I'm sure I took a shot of that when out testing my 43Ltd, found it, right, now lets make it really ugly!'
So, all the quotes could apply to it, and I could come out with some rubbish with the word 'juxtaposed' in it, and I can just picture some beardy types in berets discussing the merits of the message the artist is trying to get across. But the thing is I was just playing to see what I could do with what was essentially a shot taken to test a new lens against a bright sky!
So am I some kind of new age, post modernistic genius portraying a unique vision of the future in an apocolyptic, angular style, juxtaposing past architecture with modern communication mediums or....
Some bloke sat at home moving some sliders up and down on his new shiny computer using a test shot?
When does photography become art? I just dunno! Where is photography going? Anywhere you want it to I suppose!
PS. I'm chuffed to bits you all like it, cheers!
PPS. After all that, I still can't work out a lot of John Riley's shots either! Some are really, really good, others just make me go 'uh?'
Posted 14/07/2008 - 17:33
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(still I love you shot for the competition - i love the soft glow )
Your vote doesn't count here.You are considered biased coming from Denmark. (still I love you shot for the competition - i love the soft glow )
Martin.
Posted 14/07/2008 - 19:17
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PPS. After all that, I still can't work out a lot of John Riley's shots either! Some are really, really good, others just make me go 'uh?'
Thank you. I think. PPS. After all that, I still can't work out a lot of John Riley's shots either! Some are really, really good, others just make me go 'uh?'
I just content myself with being a Genius before my time...
Best regards, John
Posted 14/07/2008 - 20:56
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What an interesting topic!
Can I add a newbies point of view?
I came to this with an un-founded belief that the photograph should be right in the viewfinder, as Henri Cartier-Bresson. ( Not that I can do it yet ).
Having said that, I was amazed by Lilly's manipulation of, ( I think) my first posting, to bring out the colours. I think things like colour picking are great and Lilly's mono pictures, well they just blew me away.
I've just read a book on photography, ( can't remember by whom ), and was shocked when he said he'd cropped the sky out of a picture and added another one which looked better. In my mind, that would be a step too far.
But I know, that no matter how much I can do with Paintshop, what I need to do is learn how to take a good photograph first. Without that, it may be art, but it won't be photography.
Which is why I'm now reading a book called "How to look at photographs". I figure if I know how to look AT a photo, I'll learn how to look FOR a photo.
( Well, that's my humble opinion)
Can I add a newbies point of view?
I came to this with an un-founded belief that the photograph should be right in the viewfinder, as Henri Cartier-Bresson. ( Not that I can do it yet ).
Having said that, I was amazed by Lilly's manipulation of, ( I think) my first posting, to bring out the colours. I think things like colour picking are great and Lilly's mono pictures, well they just blew me away.
I've just read a book on photography, ( can't remember by whom ), and was shocked when he said he'd cropped the sky out of a picture and added another one which looked better. In my mind, that would be a step too far.
But I know, that no matter how much I can do with Paintshop, what I need to do is learn how to take a good photograph first. Without that, it may be art, but it won't be photography.
Which is why I'm now reading a book called "How to look at photographs". I figure if I know how to look AT a photo, I'll learn how to look FOR a photo.
( Well, that's my humble opinion)
Getting there! Thanks to you guys
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Posted 14/07/2008 - 21:09
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I've just read a book on photography, ( can't remember by whom ), and was shocked when he said he'd cropped the sky out of a picture and added another one which looked better. In my mind, that would be a step too far.
Don't mention that to J.R. I've just read a book on photography, ( can't remember by whom ), and was shocked when he said he'd cropped the sky out of a picture and added another one which looked better. In my mind, that would be a step too far.
With the exception of the "Public Transport" entry, you rarely know with John whether you are looking at one image or a collection of images cleverly stitched together
Hyram
Bodies: K20D (2), K10D, Super A, ME Super, Auto 110 SLR, X70, Optio P70
Pentax Glass: DA* 300, DA* 60-250, DA* 50-135, DA* 16-50, DA 70 Ltd, FA 31 Ltd, DA 35 Ltd, DA 18-55 (2), DA 12-24, DA 10-17, M 200, A 35-70, M 40, M 28, Converter-A 2X-S, 1.4X-S, AF 1.7, Pentax-110 50, Pentax-110 24
Other Glass: Sigma 105 macro, Sigma-A APO 75-300
Flash: Metz 58 AF-1 P, Pentax AF160FC ringflash, Pentax AF280T
Bodies: K20D (2), K10D, Super A, ME Super, Auto 110 SLR, X70, Optio P70
Pentax Glass: DA* 300, DA* 60-250, DA* 50-135, DA* 16-50, DA 70 Ltd, FA 31 Ltd, DA 35 Ltd, DA 18-55 (2), DA 12-24, DA 10-17, M 200, A 35-70, M 40, M 28, Converter-A 2X-S, 1.4X-S, AF 1.7, Pentax-110 50, Pentax-110 24
Other Glass: Sigma 105 macro, Sigma-A APO 75-300
Flash: Metz 58 AF-1 P, Pentax AF160FC ringflash, Pentax AF280T
Posted 14/07/2008 - 21:13
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Ooops
Getting there! Thanks to you guys
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Pentax K3ii, Pentax K10d, Kit lens ( 18-55mm ), 50mm f1.7 lens, Tamron 70-300mm lens, Prinzflex 70-162 manual lens, Various old flashes.
Posted 14/07/2008 - 23:00
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with the exception of the "Public Transport" entry, you rarely know with John whether you are looking at one image or a collection of images cleverly stitched together
Thanks Hyram with the exception of the "Public Transport" entry, you rarely know with John whether you are looking at one image or a collection of images cleverly stitched together
Just when I thought that evil ghost was back in the bottle, you unleash it , again!
Posted 14/07/2008 - 23:03
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With the exception of the "Public Transport" entry, you rarely know with John whether you are looking at one image or a collection of images cleverly stitched together
Do you think he's wondering if he's ever going to live that down?With the exception of the "Public Transport" entry, you rarely know with John whether you are looking at one image or a collection of images cleverly stitched together
I think it's our civic duty, of course, to ensure that he doesn't...
Posted 15/07/2008 - 07:23
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Martin.
Hehe - that's right but I thaught the softnes was something you added to the shot
Nimitz wrote:
(still I love you shot for the competition - i love the soft glow )
Your vote doesn't count here.You are considered biased coming from Denmark. (still I love you shot for the competition - i love the soft glow )
Martin.
Posted 15/07/2008 - 07:39
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Posted 17/07/2008 - 02:42
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At the age of 13 I started using graphics software (namely Photoshop 7 and Maxon Cinema4D). By the age of 15 I had my first camera (K100D) and used photoshop all the time to edit my photos, and boy did I love HDR . Now, 16, K20D, I adust minorly the temp, exposure, contrast of a photo in CameraRAW.
Thing is, people going the other way, photography to graphics, tend to want to experiment for fun with heavy editing.
Thing is, people going the other way, photography to graphics, tend to want to experiment for fun with heavy editing.
http://www.behance.net/robbranigan
K20D, DA18-55II, FA50 1.4, DA10-17
To buy: Metz 58 AF-1, DA*50-135, DA12-24, DA100M
K20D, DA18-55II, FA50 1.4, DA10-17
To buy: Metz 58 AF-1, DA*50-135, DA12-24, DA100M
Posted 17/07/2008 - 07:57
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Are you trying to tell us you're getting old?
Seriously, you're right. After the initial euphoria of being able to do all sorts of things to images we settle down to something more rational.
Seriously, you're right. After the initial euphoria of being able to do all sorts of things to images we settle down to something more rational.
Best regards, John
Posted 19/07/2008 - 12:59
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Nowadays with digital (with basically free film to use) it's easy to machine gun down subjects, knowing you could fix it later, if needed. And because editing programs like PS give you so much possibility's to do something to a picture, it is easy to do it wrong. I've been there, done it and eventually learned the lesson. Now I don't use PS anymore. If i need PS to save an image from the bin, it's not worth saving in the first place. Be your selfs worst critique and learn from your mistakes.
Martin.
Agree with this sentiment almost 110% I try and modify as least as possible after the fact. Usually I have to adjust the levels slightly on the highlight side and rarely on the shadow side and some cropping of course. I use manual metering mode 90% of the time with auto focus.
impotentspider wrote:
are WE the older photographers failing in our duty to educate newer people to the hobby or are we just a bunch of old stick in the muds who cant see further than FP4 or Kodachrome 64.
The problem is that the oldies who started out on FP4 or K64 made sure, everything was checked, double checked etc before pressing the shutter.are WE the older photographers failing in our duty to educate newer people to the hobby or are we just a bunch of old stick in the muds who cant see further than FP4 or Kodachrome 64.
Nowadays with digital (with basically free film to use) it's easy to machine gun down subjects, knowing you could fix it later, if needed. And because editing programs like PS give you so much possibility's to do something to a picture, it is easy to do it wrong. I've been there, done it and eventually learned the lesson. Now I don't use PS anymore. If i need PS to save an image from the bin, it's not worth saving in the first place. Be your selfs worst critique and learn from your mistakes.
Martin.
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712 posts
19 years
Copenhagen,
DK
When I do my shots I have an intention either to show it realistic - eg- my macro work as an example. Other shots - as my HDR's - are shot with this intention, with composition, light, an ev compensation in mind. I know what I want when I push the button.
The last part is what I find important. If you know what you want with the shot I don't mind the PP work afterwards.
I agree with Martin, that you need the right material for shots - you need to figure prior to a snap what you want. (still I love you shot for the competition - i love the soft glow )
I hope it makes sense - just wanted to share my view - as I fnd heavely manipulated images just as good and interesting as the complete opposite.