Where for Video??

Very good, nice bit of drumming. I kept expecting to see the coffee mug go flying!

To be fair, this is a Pentax forum and Pentax DSLRs don't even AF in video yet.

One reason for some serious discussion then

- How much of a problem is this?
- How do people get around the problem?
- Is it possible to upgrade the AF in a future firmware update or will it need a hardware change?
- Is it possible to 'lobby' pentax for a more serious video function on this, or the next, DSLR?
-etc.

Personally I don't understand the reluctance to establish a video section. Every new forum has to start with a single post before it attracts more interest. Who knows it might even encourage people to give it a try.

Posting under the Pentax DSLR section is ok but not really ideal for discussions about post production editing techniques,software tips or what external microphone/lighting is best.

However I don't run the forum so I shall shut up.

I feel certain that this topic will crop up again. In the meantime, once I have some video information to share, I shall post it as directed.

Personally I'm into the video side of things, or at least I will be when I get my hands on the K-30. I'm currently editing my wedding footage from 10 years ago, it's SD, has dubious white balance and zero depth of field variation as it was from panasonic DV recorders. Still I'm glad of the content, but modern DSLR's put so much power in our hands from both a still and video point of view, I find it hard not to get excited about the field.

I guess I'm extremely driven to remind people that video is a series of stills. All that effort you put into composition, mood and finishings etc, it all goes across to video. It's all stills, just with video you're seeing a heck of a lot of them!

(Technically video is also at a much lower resolution compared to still shots, but then you don't often 'print' video!)

I was upset about the lack of continuous auto focus during video capture, but frankly I got over it as I think manual control of focussing via some old school lens is where I'd want to be headed anyway.

What I'm not happy about is
a) the very low bit rate of Pentax's video captures. Full HD at 24fps yes, but much lower bitrates (ready overall impact quality) when compared to Canon and Panasonic, even before those systems are 'hacked'.
b) where is the focus peaking during video?!

There's no reluctance to establish anything that's technically possible and will be useful.

However, forums that have too many sections are just overwhelming to the visitor and do lead to lots of misplaced topics.

Optios have video too and it might be appropriate to start discussions about video for an Optio user in that section. If the problem is with a K-5 and video, then the DSLR section. But the point is it never happens, or very rarely anyway.

Make it happen and the forum will respond. Then we'll get video chat in all three sections...

Good bit of drumming Danny!

I'd quite like a video section. I think there are probably some really impressive videos made with Pentax cameras out there, and I'd like to see some. I think it would be helpful to the rest of us, as we could learn from those who have mastered the art. Discussion of technique and useful extra equipment would maybe promote the video side of things more.

For instance I used the video on the K-5 last year briefly to record a jazz band performing on the Hurtigruten ship I was on. Sadly the wind noise meant the sound was abysmal so I never bothered posting it anywhere.
If I were to get serious about the video side of things I'd need to invest in an external mike and a furry little caterpillar for it too, but I have no idea what is available, what is best etc.

I was tempted to start another thread just to 'up the numbers' but decided to continue this one as it has attracted some interest.

Others may have already seen this but it really does show what the K5 is capable of without manual control or focus peaking.

link

It also shows the importance of editing, multiple angles, good composition, good understanding of light and a story.

I am really looking forward to building this function into my travels.

Thanks Gwyn appreciated and John yes I noticed afterwards how i'd created a little "artistic tension" there!!

So to my question: You may have noticed the hissing sound from the mic until the drumming started at which point it seemed to stop or at least became inaudible. Is this because the gain on the mic is set too high?? it was at level 4. If i turn it down then i may negate the hiss but end up with audio that is too quiet. I dont have editing software or the money to get it so i want to get it right In camera. Im also wondering how the mic handles much louder sounds....so tonight it will accompany me to band practise!

I am interested in making music videos primarily and I know that eventually and of the camera mic and or full band mix will be neccesary, but for now i want/need to keep things small and as "compact" as possible.

Thanks to everyone for the interest in the thread so far. Lets keep it going and posting and commenting on each others videos

Daniel

Ok let's talk seriously about video, Danny has linked to a single shot, frankly not a great one. One shot does not a video make

How much better this would be if we had close ups of his fingers (I can think of four different angles) intercut with the wide shot and close ups of his face.

Although pro video cameras record sound you would never use the built in mic on something like this and, by the way, pro cameras don't have autofocus for very good reasons.

I do know what I'm talking about, apart from making hundreds of hours for broadcast I'm one of the two people who set up the film and tv department at the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama, in our first two years we won two BAFTAS and an Oscar Nomination for student films.

Great Ken, but it doesnt answer any of my questions, and btw how am I supposed to do what you suggest as twas me on me lonesome!

I will try tonight, band without a drummer (me!) and we will see what I manage to get

I look forward to seeing it, the best way is to do it is to playback and mime but that would be tall order to organise for tonight.
Remember that cutaways of things like a musician turning his head and so on can give great impetus to an edit. In performance videos many, maybe most, directors will cut to the music but I've always preferred to go with the best images to some extent. You could start with a wide shot as a safety shot to fall back on and use that as your master music track. Then go for individual shots on each musician - face, fingers, mid shot and so. If you aren't using playback you'll need the non specific shots like faces and so on to allow you to pull things back into sync, it will almost certainly drift..

If you don't have an editing package I recommend Sony Vegas Platium Pro, I'm pretty certain there is a fully functional free trial version.

You can use the waveforms on your audio track to match sync with the master which should be track 1. For a three minute piece you will need about 30 minutes of raw material in my experience.

Agree with Gartmore in that there is a lot more to videoing if you want to get into it seriously. I think there is great scope for doing some very cool thinks with a DSLR, but past a certain point, and with certain subject material, the DSLR is not the only equipment in the equation.

Even with expensive consumer pro cameras the internal mic is not always sufficient. For anything serious you go off camera, either via an external mic port (which is not available on the K-30) or via an separate device altogether. For weddings I'd often use a third party quality voice recorder and import this audio into my project during the editing stage. As Gartmore suggests, you sync this at an appropriate point of the video.

For projects with multiple cameras I used to start them all running for the duration of the event, never stopping any individual camera. A common action, like clapping a hand or a camera flash would be used to sync all the tracks at a later date. One is your base wide shot and the other cameras catching closer details. A lot of content can be simulated at a later date as your audience won't know this. Don't think you even need sound for closeup shots etc, unless you're trying to lip sync. A lot of this fill shot content would be impossible to get live anyway, as you'd capture yourself walking all over the wide shot.

I am a fan of Adobe products, both Lightroom and Premiere, and I'd recommend going for these personally. They are a very steep learning curve initially, but are fully flexible down the line. Potentially you can do a lot of intro stuff with the likes of Microsoft Movie Maker or the 'i' equivalent on the mac, however sooner or later you're going to push the limits of what is possible on those.

AF during video recording is akin to stills issues with sports/bird action. The unit has to guess where the subject is going to go and this is not always easy or accurate. With stills the result is an out of focus shot, but with video the results are both out of focus but hunting back and forth, plus auto focus noise on non silent motor equipped lenses. That's all pretty yuck really.
youtube focus demo link
You'd counter this with wider depth of field, meaning the actual focus point required is less critical, and less autofocus movement would be required. (Or by using a Pentax that doesn't even try to offer it in Video mode.:wink Or use manual focus instead, which is actually probably preferable for a professional look.

For situations like a bride walking slowly down an isle though, it would be nice to be able to have the focus track that automatically, with a moderately narrow depth of field, but you could achieve the same result with manual focus I guess too.

I never used th video function untill very recently, the results pretty good on the k30 (although there is alot of room for improvemnt in my own skills). I am looking forward to experimenting more

Danny
Although the editing package mentioned are good there is, as mentioned, a steep learning curve.

Windows movie maker or iMovie for macs are both free (or very cheap) and are a good starter for 10 as they are simple to use and provide most of the basics for editing.

I use Final Cut Pro and Adobe premier but started with the free ones first.

There is virtually no way to produce a 'pro look' video with a single camera without a lot of work. It involves filming from one position, moving the camera and then repeating the action several time from different viewpoints and then editing the separate views together to make it look like the action occurred as one. The soundtrack needs to be separated and spread across the edited clips to add continuity.

In many ways the actual filming is the easy part, planning yeou story, working out the angles, positioning the kit, 'directing' the action, editing and finishing can take far longer and more effort.

Here are a couple of my efforts using imovie and single camera:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRplu823xkU

On the next one you can hear the big limitation of using the on board mic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFTJSuimy8o

When we had a Super 8 film camera for a while I soon decided that casual filming was pointless. Unless we properly plan and shoot a film then it's of little interest to anyone.

Modern compact cameras are actually very good for impromtu filming, be it a concert performance, the annual karaoke party or the school nativity play. That can go straight onto Facebook or YouTube for the family and that's OK.

If I wanted to make films I'd buy a video camera, although I'd probably prefer to shoot with three cameras. As soon as I'd decided I wanted to do this though I'd be asking Ken for advice.