Where Do We Draw The Line?

Well, Algi's list seems to be in some sort of chronological order - but it may be a bit tricky to create ebay categories for them all

How do you feel about the dividing line being drawn at the start of the K-mount itself?

I don't feel anything about it in particular really, but it's giving me an idea of a consensus of how people view it. That's actually very helpful.

I agree with the others...K mount and M42.

Dunno, I'd think modern is APSC but anything K mount is "usable". M42 at least requires an adapter which slightly differentiates it from K mount for me?

Well then I reckon any lens you can use on a k5/3/30/50/500 et al
and retain all the functions sans autofocus is modern, anything else is not... Simples...

Veteran - M42
Vintage - K manual
Classic - K with A aperture
Modern Classic - K with A aperture and AF but no longer in production
Modern - Any K in production

Philip

There are only 3 categories for Ebay....
New
Almost New
Mint

I'd be interested to hear your opinion on the actual original question Algi.

I think I'd distinguish between manual and auto focus. So the line gets drawn after SMCA? Jon

I don't fully understand the original question regarding the modern/usable category. For ebay the categories within camera&photography are:

lenses&filters
film photography
vintage photography
digital cameras


If I were selling a lens, I would categorise it as "lenses & filters" regardless of age.

I would categorise a camera sold with any lens that fits that camera as "digital cameras" if it were a digital camera.

The only remaining question is what is the distinction between film photography and vintage photography. I don't really think it matters as the buyer of collectibles will search both categories for genuine collectibles, along with the other sub-categories too. However, as a general rule of thumb I would choose a date to differentiate the categories, somewhere in the late 1950's to mid1960's maybe.

As to the differentiation of modern/usable, I think modern is quite different to usable. But I think the debate is rather hypothetical.

I use lenses with the Pentax K mount on my DSLRs. So I draw the line between M42 and K mount. I especially enjoy using SMC-K lenses, and do not regard lack of "A" setting or manual focus as any problem at all. The SMC-K lenses (especially) have an impressive build quality, and they perform marvelously, so I regard them as great photographic tools, not as vintage collector items. In fact, I am less confident when I walk around with some of the more modern Pentax plastic lenses. They seem much more frail.

This was possibly beside the point of departure for this thread, but anyway...

I'd agree with Jon. The AF lenses are much more suitable on DSLRs, not just the AF but better integration with focal length reporting and lens corrections. But I'd hesitate to use vintage/collectable for the K mount lenses (not really vintage and only a few would be considered collectable).

I think the dividing line should be on the mount type (not series), leaving a choice of M42, K (Kf), KA, KAF, KAF2 & KAF3.

John.

+1

On eBay 'vintage' or 'collectible' usually equates 'overpriced'. I cringe whenever I see pictures of 'collector's' hoards of lenses, especially when it is obvious that they've never actually used most of them.

For Pentax I would draw the line between M42 and K mounts - anything with a K mount is eminently useable with the minimum of hassle.

This might not fit exactly, but where would you put a Sigma 170-500mm? Certainly not vintage, but in terms of being collectible, I had to scour the planet to find one when I obtained mine in 2008, simply because they didn't make that many with a Pentax mount.

A great topic though, John!

Given m42 lenses are regularly used by many types of dslr (pentax, canon, sony...) I'd very much class them as usable too.
IMO lenses that need modification or custom adapters to be used with ANY modern camera would fit in the collectable class. I have a couple from prewar folding cameras, that have been jury rigged via bellows, still usable after a bit of work but more vintage/collectable. All of my Large format lenses would probably fit in that class too.
Especially rare m42/K mount lenses such as the 1000mm reflex could be listed in either (& probably should be in both). The early M39 screw mounts and the MEF's lenses are the only pentax lenses I'd be unsure about classing as usable.
Until about 5 years ago FD lenses were pretty much useless with any modern camera, so would have been considered collectable (or junk). Now there are many adapters available for them to be used with mirrorless cameras, so I'd say they were usable again.