Visit MPB Visit MPB Visit MPB

What to do...

paulcliff
Posted 01/03/2016 - 13:12 Link
Hi All,

I've never used an external flash before, ever, all I've ever used is the built in flash on my K-X, I've never like the results. Recently I purchased a Sigma 17-50 f2.8 with which I am expecting in the post soon a free Sigma EF-610 DG ST. I'm not really sure what to do with it, I watched a few videos explaining the different ways that external flashes can be used and I like the idea of trying out using the flash off camera and using a remote trigger (can use the pop-up flash?).

Reading up on the DG ST it seems it can ONLY be used when attached to the hot shoe, and can't be used off camera, is this right? To add to this, I've now purchased a K-3ii, which should be arrive in the post soon too, so no pop-up flash.

Reading reviews of the DG ST it seems that its main selling point seems to be it's power, but it's somewhat limited in other areas. So here's my thinking, do I sell the flash and put the money towards a different flash, or do I keep it and try it out, or will I simply use it for a while and be frustrated at it's limitations.

As I said, this is all new to me, I don't have a studio or anything to do portraits, but it's definitely an area that I'd like to explore, especially now I have young children and nieces/nephews, the family are always asking if I could 'take some nice photos of them'.

Cheers for any advice

Paul.
stu62
Posted 01/03/2016 - 14:07 Link
Look for a member called Nigel megrege don't take no notice of anyone else when it comes to flash photography he is the one
McGregNi
Posted 01/03/2016 - 14:16 Link
Stu you are a real comedian, thanks for the great intro act !. You can be my new agent

There's definitely other people to take notice of, certainly not just me. There will be a range of good options and different good ideas from members here with all sorts of experience.

I've got the Sigma brochure with specs and there are clear limitations with that model for wireless and manual mode working. I've got a couple of ideas, ways you could go with it ....I will write in more detail later when I get onto a computer, easier than on a phone ....
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 01/03/2016 - 14:17
stu62
Posted 01/03/2016 - 14:35 Link
Thanks Nigel it should be in everyone's interest to make people laugh then the world would be a lot better place
paulcliff
Posted 01/03/2016 - 14:58 Link
Thanks guys, I had actually read a lot of your guide the other day Nigel which led me to checking out the Sigma's specs and realising it's limitations!
McGregNi
Posted 01/03/2016 - 15:12 Link
stu62 wrote:
Thanks Nigel it should be in everyone's interest to make people laugh then the world would be a lot better place

Yes, for sure, you're right there . I usually try to be the first to laugh at myself .... It's better that way !

Paul, yes, you would have read a lot of things in the guide that are not available on the lower sad pec Sigma model. The 'DG Super' model is that one that has it all. .... Pity they aren't giving THAT one away
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
paulcliff
Posted 01/03/2016 - 15:49 Link
McGregNi wrote:
stu62 wrote:
Thanks Nigel it should be in everyone's interest to make people laugh then the world would be a lot better place

Yes, for sure, you're right there . I usually try to be the first to laugh at myself .... It's better that way !

Paul, yes, you would have read a lot of things in the guide that are not available on the lower sad pec Sigma model. The 'DG Super' model is that one that has it all. .... Pity they aren't giving THAT one away

Yeah, I'm temped just to sell it, but then I'm not sure I really want to shell out £300 on a decent Pentax one at the moment...
stub
Posted 01/03/2016 - 17:10 Link
The Sigma DG ST flash Is a very capable flash on camera. Perfect for parties and events. Capitalizing on its TTL functions. But your right it will have limitations off camera... If your looking to do some portraits Off camera. It would be my recommendation to buy a cheap manual flash. Yongnuo YN560 and cheap trigger and receiver. Around £60.. In my opinion once you have mastered the skills of manual flash the results are more rewarding...
K-1Gripped K-1 ungripped K-5ii K7 Various lenses

Stuart..
wvbarnes
Posted 01/03/2016 - 17:21 Link
Hi, I've had one of these Sigma DG ST flashes for some years, not that I use it much unless for a wedding or family event. It is a good powerful if basic gun dedicated to Pentax TTL and zooms with your Pentax lenses if you have the right version.

I bought a curly cabled off shoe adapter to keep the TTL when flash mounted on a bracket. All very cheaply from 7dayshop (when they had such things in abundance).

On bracket or camera the Sigma has useful low flash power for macro when fully tilted down (both lights flash) and also is good bounced. I've not had much success with the built in light card for close portraites. The wide diffuser works well at anty focal length. I also have a cheapo flash diffuser that looks like a shower bottle cap to me (same fit as Canon)
paulcliff
Posted 01/03/2016 - 19:42 Link
Interesting, I'd like to see some shots Bill.

Just looking at the Super, its actually not that expensive compared to the Pentax units, is it worth selling the ST and getting the Super, or are both going to disappoint me?

Another option is that I keep the ST and buy a Super late down the line, is there a way to use both Flashes at the same time?

Could I use the ST with an extension cord?
McGregNi
Posted 01/03/2016 - 20:37 Link
Those are pretty good user reports from stub and Bill, and certainly on paper the Sigma ST model looks very capable for on-camera P-TTL (automatic) flash work. It has good power and tilt and swivel, so it is perfectly useful for on-camera, dynamic types of flash photography. As Bills says, using a flash bracket with a 'TTL Extension Cord' allows better shadow control by getting the flash away from the lens axis, and you retain all the P-TTL functioning this way.

So, assuming you want to have an automatic on-camera flash, your cheapest option is probably to keep the (free) Sigma flash for this purpose.

For wireless off camera flash, then you will need to get a radio transmitter/receiver system. This is what I would suggest, for good value and flexibility ....

Get an additional Manual Flash with Radio trigger system, PLUS an extra receiver unit to use to trigger your Sigma flash manually

I'm thinking that this way you can have good value plus flexibility. If you sell the Sigma you have to buy a more expensive unit to get P-TTL, but with good radio manual control you won't miss P-TTL for wireless off-camera working.

I will recommend what I use myself, which is the Cactus V6 'Transceiver' (you get TWO of these) plus a Cactus RF60 Flash. Flash is around £115, Transceivers are around £40.

You put one V6 on the camera hotshoe (in 'transmitter' mode), and your Sigma flash onto the other V6 (in 'receiver' mode). The RF60 flash does not need a receiver as it has one built in. By setting the RF60 flash and the V6 attached to the Sigma flash to the same channel (eg Chan 1) you will be able to remotely control both flashes from the V6 on your camera, up to around 100meters.

You will be able to control the power output of the RF60 in 7 steps from 1/1 through to 1/64th, plus you will be able to remotely control the Flash Head Zoom of the RF60.

With the Sigma flash you will not be able to control the Flash Head Zoom, but you should have at least the manual power control that the flash offers, which is 1/1 and 1/16th. Now, it MAY be possible to programme the V6 attached to the Sigma flash to create additional power steps .... this is called 'profiling'. This is above my pay-grade though, so I will try and look into that and find out through the Cactus forum and at PF where I should be able to find out.

However, the limitation of only 2 power steps is not such a bad thing as it may sound, as you can also control the flash exposure with the ISO, Aperture, or by changing the flash to subject distance. But as I say, lets find out if the Cactus may offer an improvement over that manual power control on the Sigma.

From the on-camera V6 you can flick each flash on and off instantly with the press of a button, so its very easy to assess the effects independently without leaving the camera.

I appreciate that this is a very bold and specific suggestion ..... but sometimes that is better than generalised guidance I feel ......

The only P-TTL related functions you will be lacking with this 2-flash set-up will be HSS and 2nd Curtain sync. However, both techniques have possible 'workarounds' using the V6 and RF60 , devised by my Kiwi compatriot 'ClassA' (who I will no doubt soon be talking to at the Cactus support forum and at PF about the V6 profiling)

But don't get too excited about HSS, its a bit fiddly without an HSS capable flash. 2nd Curtain Sync is fairly easy on the RF60 with a delay setting available.

I can't comment on the alternatives such as Yongnuo, but there are other members here who can advise on the features available so you can compare to my Cactus / Sigma recommendation.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Edited by McGregNi: 01/03/2016 - 20:45
paulcliff
Posted 03/03/2016 - 11:53 Link
Thank Nigel,

That's really helpful, I'll do some research into the cactus system. I think I'll have a play with the Sigma unit when it arrives and see how I feel about it. I just don't want to go spending money right away before I'm sure I even enjoy using a flash.

Add Comment

To leave a comment - Log in to Pentax User or create a new account.