what is art
Posted 10/03/2010 - 22:23
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I guessed as much that there was a story behing those pics and I kinda follow her anguish that animals are the casualty of our modern progress. Clearly, she has a heart for the whole of the natural world. It is a pity that her titles do not explain this. I can look at the pictures now in an entirely different light and see the irony in her work. I do not think I have the courage to express my photography in this challenging way but I have an empathy with her aims to challenge and provoke thought. Provocation, I suspect, is part of art.
thoramay
thoramay
Posted 11/03/2010 - 10:32
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thoramay wrote:
Some of the pictures I see defined as art leaves me cold. I don't know how that agrees with the deffinition of effecting the emotions.
Stefan. To reach London on a day trip will take over four hours. Travelling off peak fares means reaching London after midday and leaving two hours later arriving home past six in the evening, a twelve hour day for a two hour viewing, and that without stopping to eat!! My constitution would not tolerate such energy expenditure.
The major benefit of the forum is to tap into other people's experiences and to share views. I still feel there is a simpler deffinition of art in relation to photography, or is art indefinable as a subject in that art resides in the mind of the viewer.
thoramay.
Exactly my point, the definition of art is a personal thing. What says something to one person leaves another cold. As such you're unlikely to get a consensus on what art is beyond a very broad definition.
Some of the pictures I see defined as art leaves me cold. I don't know how that agrees with the deffinition of effecting the emotions.
Stefan. To reach London on a day trip will take over four hours. Travelling off peak fares means reaching London after midday and leaving two hours later arriving home past six in the evening, a twelve hour day for a two hour viewing, and that without stopping to eat!! My constitution would not tolerate such energy expenditure.
The major benefit of the forum is to tap into other people's experiences and to share views. I still feel there is a simpler deffinition of art in relation to photography, or is art indefinable as a subject in that art resides in the mind of the viewer.
thoramay.
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 12:13
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My personal definition (which I understand probably won't be shared by people with better art educations than myself, i.e. just about everybody ) is that it can be called art if it exists for no reason other than to provide viewing pleasure/interest, AND requires some skill to create it.
Off the top of my head, some examples of things I don't consider to be art:
Tracey Emin's bed
An upside down urinal
Those paintings where the guy empties paint pots in the jetwash of a jet engine to splatter random patterns on a canvas
Geometric modern art (I don't know what the correct term is, but e.g. a square and a triangle on a white canvas)
Some other paintings are a bit borderline, Rothko (one of my wife's favorites) springs to mind.
Off the top of my head, some examples of things I don't consider to be art:
Tracey Emin's bed
An upside down urinal
Those paintings where the guy empties paint pots in the jetwash of a jet engine to splatter random patterns on a canvas
Geometric modern art (I don't know what the correct term is, but e.g. a square and a triangle on a white canvas)
Some other paintings are a bit borderline, Rothko (one of my wife's favorites) springs to mind.
Tim
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 12:36
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Robbie and Tim. How do you see art in photography? I share Tim's view of so called art generally but my interest is in how we create art through photography. It does not have such a wide application of some otehr art forms. I simply want to know if I creatre art or just take pictures!1
thoramay
thoramay
Posted 11/03/2010 - 12:41
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thoughton, that sounds about right. But was John Constable creating art with his paintings The Haywain and Flatford Mill, or are they just the equivalent of the landscape photograph of the day.
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 14:17
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I think that only emphasizes my point! He was painting these scenes for no reason other than for people to appreciate, and it took great skill to create it. Art in my book
Photography as art I see in much the same way. Most photos are just records of an event/location. I don't consider these to be art, no matter how beautiful the scenery or how amazing the macro shot. If the photographer has, using photographic techniques, injected something which elevates it above mere 'record keeping', then I think it can cross the line and become 'art'.
The question then becomes what photographic techniques can do this. A much harder question Limited DOF is probably the most common example as it is the easiest for beginners (like me!) to practise. I think composition can also accomplish the same feat, but in my opinion this requires much more skill.
These are just thoughts off the top of my head while I was eating my lunch. I am not an art expert, or even an art journeyman, so don't take them as gospel!
Photography as art I see in much the same way. Most photos are just records of an event/location. I don't consider these to be art, no matter how beautiful the scenery or how amazing the macro shot. If the photographer has, using photographic techniques, injected something which elevates it above mere 'record keeping', then I think it can cross the line and become 'art'.
The question then becomes what photographic techniques can do this. A much harder question Limited DOF is probably the most common example as it is the easiest for beginners (like me!) to practise. I think composition can also accomplish the same feat, but in my opinion this requires much more skill.
These are just thoughts off the top of my head while I was eating my lunch. I am not an art expert, or even an art journeyman, so don't take them as gospel!
Tim
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 14:24
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Tim, I think you've hit the nail on the head with your last two posts.
I particularly think the point about skill is a valid one, in recent years there have been far too many pieces which appear to exist only for "experts" to try and decipher a meaning from then (upside down urinals, etc.).
I particularly think the point about skill is a valid one, in recent years there have been far too many pieces which appear to exist only for "experts" to try and decipher a meaning from then (upside down urinals, etc.).
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 14:32
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thoramay, with regards to photography as art, I think what Tim has said is pretty much how I feel.
If the photographer has put thought into composition and technique and offers us something different to what we might have seen had we been there, then it is art in my eyes.
If someone has just taken a picture of something in front of them I don't believe it's art, purely on the grounds that it takes little or no skill to buy a camera, go somewhere, point a camera at something and press a button.
I think if the outscome (in this case picture) is something that any other person on the planet could have recreated with little or no effort, then it is not art.
If the photographer has put thought into composition and technique and offers us something different to what we might have seen had we been there, then it is art in my eyes.
If someone has just taken a picture of something in front of them I don't believe it's art, purely on the grounds that it takes little or no skill to buy a camera, go somewhere, point a camera at something and press a button.
I think if the outscome (in this case picture) is something that any other person on the planet could have recreated with little or no effort, then it is not art.
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 14:38
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thoughton, I agree that the paintings took great skill, and that may be an art in itself, but how do we know that they are not just a record of the location. This as you say would not be art. The same thing applies, I think, to some portraits that are classed as works of art. From what I understand they would be commissioned originally for the sole purpose of creating a likeness of the subject.
As for gospels, I thought we were keeping religion out of this
As for gospels, I thought we were keeping religion out of this
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 14:47
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Barrie, my objection to 'record' photos being called Art is that there is no skill involved. I think no matter which way you look at it you cannot say Constable's paintings took no skill.
Tim
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 15:06
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thoughton wrote:
Barrie, my objection to 'record' photos being called Art is that there is no skill involved. I think no matter which way you look at it you cannot say Constable's paintings took no skill.
I agree totally about the skill, and here I'm with you that I'm no art expert. But if it is just skill how do you reconcile a Constable or Tuner with a Munch or Van Gogh
Barrie, my objection to 'record' photos being called Art is that there is no skill involved. I think no matter which way you look at it you cannot say Constable's paintings took no skill.
Barrie - Too Old To Die Young
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 15:19
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Tim I already shared your view in my first comment here.
something that's made by someone to be aestheticly pleasing.
Since no non commented I thought I was wrong
There is of course also talent which Thoramay and the eye for things, that's something hard to train. That's why some artists excel over others and why some are better in math and the other in language.
something that's made by someone to be aestheticly pleasing.
Since no non commented I thought I was wrong
bforbes wrote:
I agree totally about the skill, and here I'm with you that I'm no art expert. But if it is just skill how do you reconcile a Constable or Tuner with a Munch or Van Gogh
With reconcile you mean compare right Barrie?I agree totally about the skill, and here I'm with you that I'm no art expert. But if it is just skill how do you reconcile a Constable or Tuner with a Munch or Van Gogh
There is of course also talent which Thoramay and the eye for things, that's something hard to train. That's why some artists excel over others and why some are better in math and the other in language.
Stefan
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 15:23
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bforbes wrote:
But if it is just skill how do you reconcile a Constable or Tuner with a Munch or Van Gogh
I don't think you have to reconcile them. They all had skill, and they all created paintings that had no purpose other than for people to appreciate. Therefore they are artists But if it is just skill how do you reconcile a Constable or Tuner with a Munch or Van Gogh
My point about 'skill' is just to differentiate from the idiots who glue a urinal upside down to a wall and then call it art. Any plonker could do that, therefore it isn't art (in my opinion )
Tim
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Posted 11/03/2010 - 15:26
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Anvh wrote:
Tim I already shared your view in my first comment here.
something that's made by someone to be aestheticly pleasing.
Since no non commented I thought I was wrong
That's half of my view Tim I already shared your view in my first comment here.
something that's made by someone to be aestheticly pleasing.
Since no non commented I thought I was wrong
If the only criteria is that it be aesthetically pleasing then no I don't think it's art. As stated above (several times now!) my opinion is that, in addition to it having no purpose other than being aesthetically pleasing, there must also be skill involved.
Tim
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10412 posts
18 years
Dordrecht,
the Netherlands
I've a book with some of her art and the titles aren't the meaning full.
This one is called.
Pelican with Turnips
Let me quite an interview.
Marian Drew was born in Australia in 1960. She has had over 20 solo exhibitions in Australia, The United States, France and Germany. In order to create this series, Every Living Thing, Drew photographed local roadkill in a dark studio by torchlight. She exposed the film for 15 minutes against backdrops of previously photographed landscapes printed onto large sheets. After shooting, the animals were given a proper burial in her large backyard. Of this work she says, ‘In 2002, I traveled to Germany, where I studied the still life paintings in museums and in particular an extensive collection at Wilhelmshöhe, in the city of Kassel. On my return home these ideas untied with the imagery of the animals I saw killed on roads in Australia. In the course of daily life these native animals are killed by cars, domestic pets or power lines and are easily found scattered beside the roads throughout our urban environments. This new perspective made me question our existing relationship to wild animals. The wealthy landowners in Renaissance Europe believed that the abundance of nature was there for human consumption. I found correlations to these ideas within the local attitudes to wildlife that are killed in the drive for urban expansion and economic growth. By imitating the historic painted forms of the ‘Still Life’, but replacing paint with photographic verisimilitude, and familiar European animals with Australian native species, a discord is exposed. This work aims to overlay the historical and the present, the European with the antipodean and photography with painting, while exploring contemporary notions of death and a changing relationship to animals’.
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