Using Helios 58mm on K-r
Posted 26/05/2012 - 13:54
Link
Hi Peter
There are a couple of things that need to be checked with a K-r to shoot with manual lenses. Forgive me if you have already done any of these.
Firstly you need you need to set 'use aperture ring' to 'permitted' in order to use manual lenses.
Press the menu button.
Press the left button on the four-way controller once to get to the Custom Settings menu
Press the down button on the four-way controller and select Using Aperture Ring
Press the down button on the four-way controller, select Permitted and press the OK button.
Press the Menu button to exit the Custom Settings menu
You need to set the focal length of the lens when you turn the camera on, though this isn't vital if not accurate though the EXIF will be wrong.
With M lenses (no A on the aperture ring) you simply set the aperture ring to the desired setting. Select manual (M) on the dial on the camera.
When you have composed the shot press the green button once. This will take a reading for you and set the shutter speed to match your chosen aperture. I tend to find that this underexposes a little so usually reduce the selected shutter speed by a couple of steps.
A lenses can be set to A on the aperture ring and then you should be able to use AV mode to select both aperture and shutter speed.
Hope this helps
Chris
There are a couple of things that need to be checked with a K-r to shoot with manual lenses. Forgive me if you have already done any of these.
Firstly you need you need to set 'use aperture ring' to 'permitted' in order to use manual lenses.
Press the menu button.
Press the left button on the four-way controller once to get to the Custom Settings menu
Press the down button on the four-way controller and select Using Aperture Ring
Press the down button on the four-way controller, select Permitted and press the OK button.
Press the Menu button to exit the Custom Settings menu
You need to set the focal length of the lens when you turn the camera on, though this isn't vital if not accurate though the EXIF will be wrong.
With M lenses (no A on the aperture ring) you simply set the aperture ring to the desired setting. Select manual (M) on the dial on the camera.
When you have composed the shot press the green button once. This will take a reading for you and set the shutter speed to match your chosen aperture. I tend to find that this underexposes a little so usually reduce the selected shutter speed by a couple of steps.
A lenses can be set to A on the aperture ring and then you should be able to use AV mode to select both aperture and shutter speed.
Hope this helps
Chris
Posted 26/05/2012 - 16:05
Link
Many thanks Chris.
I'll try that and take some more shots of the Ceanothus tomorrow morning when the sun is in the same direction (it is in the shade of the house in the afternoon and shaded by the garage ealy morning so I have a rather limited 'window' of best light !
You've got some great sharp close-ups on your portfolio and I'm pleased to see you are also using a K-r. So now it is up to me to see what I can do !
Thanks again
Peter
I'll try that and take some more shots of the Ceanothus tomorrow morning when the sun is in the same direction (it is in the shade of the house in the afternoon and shaded by the garage ealy morning so I have a rather limited 'window' of best light !
You've got some great sharp close-ups on your portfolio and I'm pleased to see you are also using a K-r. So now it is up to me to see what I can do !
Thanks again
Peter
Posted 26/05/2012 - 16:20
Link
milamber wrote:
Hi Peter
There are a couple of things that need to be checked with a K-r to shoot with manual lenses. Forgive me if you have already done any of these.
Firstly you need you need to set 'use aperture ring' to 'permitted' in order to use manual lenses.
Press the menu button.
Press the left button on the four-way controller once to get to the Custom Settings menu
Press the down button on the four-way controller and select Using Aperture Ring
Press the down button on the four-way controller, select Permitted and press the OK button.
Press the Menu button to exit the Custom Settings menu
You need to set the focal length of the lens when you turn the camera on, though this isn't vital if not accurate though the EXIF will be wrong.
With M lenses (no A on the aperture ring) you simply set the aperture ring to the desired setting. Select manual (M) on the dial on the camera.
When you have composed the shot press the green button once. This will take a reading for you and set the shutter speed to match your chosen aperture. I tend to find that this underexposes a little so usually reduce the selected shutter speed by a couple of steps.
A lenses can be set to A on the aperture ring and then you should be able to use AV mode to select both aperture and shutter speed.
Hope this helps
Chris
If using an M42 adapter, the lens will work in Av mode - the aperture will not be held open at all (resulting in a darkened viewfinder as you stop down). This is different from using a K-mount lens so none of those settings are necessary.
Hi Peter
There are a couple of things that need to be checked with a K-r to shoot with manual lenses. Forgive me if you have already done any of these.
Firstly you need you need to set 'use aperture ring' to 'permitted' in order to use manual lenses.
Press the menu button.
Press the left button on the four-way controller once to get to the Custom Settings menu
Press the down button on the four-way controller and select Using Aperture Ring
Press the down button on the four-way controller, select Permitted and press the OK button.
Press the Menu button to exit the Custom Settings menu
You need to set the focal length of the lens when you turn the camera on, though this isn't vital if not accurate though the EXIF will be wrong.
With M lenses (no A on the aperture ring) you simply set the aperture ring to the desired setting. Select manual (M) on the dial on the camera.
When you have composed the shot press the green button once. This will take a reading for you and set the shutter speed to match your chosen aperture. I tend to find that this underexposes a little so usually reduce the selected shutter speed by a couple of steps.
A lenses can be set to A on the aperture ring and then you should be able to use AV mode to select both aperture and shutter speed.
Hope this helps
Chris
Posted 26/05/2012 - 17:40
Link
Pentaxophile wrote:
Thanks again Chris and also Will for your comments on using Av.milamber wrote:
Hi Peter
There are a couple of things that need to be checked with a K-r to shoot with manual lenses. Forgive me if you have already done any of these.
Firstly you need you need to set 'use aperture ring' to 'permitted' in order to use manual lenses.
Press the menu button.
Press the left button on the four-way controller once to get to the Custom Settings menu
Press the down button on the four-way controller and select Using Aperture Ring
Press the down button on the four-way controller, select Permitted and press the OK button.
Press the Menu button to exit the Custom Settings menu
You need to set the focal length of the lens when you turn the camera on, though this isn't vital if not accurate though the EXIF will be wrong.
With M lenses (no A on the aperture ring) you simply set the aperture ring to the desired setting. Select manual (M) on the dial on the camera.
When you have composed the shot press the green button once. This will take a reading for you and set the shutter speed to match your chosen aperture. I tend to find that this underexposes a little so usually reduce the selected shutter speed by a couple of steps.
A lenses can be set to A on the aperture ring and then you should be able to use AV mode to select both aperture and shutter speed.
Hope this helps
Chris
If using an M42 adapter, the lens will work in Av mode - the aperture will not be held open at all (resulting in a darkened viewfinder as you stop down). This is different from using a K-mount lens so none of those settings are necessary.Hi Peter
There are a couple of things that need to be checked with a K-r to shoot with manual lenses. Forgive me if you have already done any of these.
Firstly you need you need to set 'use aperture ring' to 'permitted' in order to use manual lenses.
Press the menu button.
Press the left button on the four-way controller once to get to the Custom Settings menu
Press the down button on the four-way controller and select Using Aperture Ring
Press the down button on the four-way controller, select Permitted and press the OK button.
Press the Menu button to exit the Custom Settings menu
You need to set the focal length of the lens when you turn the camera on, though this isn't vital if not accurate though the EXIF will be wrong.
With M lenses (no A on the aperture ring) you simply set the aperture ring to the desired setting. Select manual (M) on the dial on the camera.
When you have composed the shot press the green button once. This will take a reading for you and set the shutter speed to match your chosen aperture. I tend to find that this underexposes a little so usually reduce the selected shutter speed by a couple of steps.
A lenses can be set to A on the aperture ring and then you should be able to use AV mode to select both aperture and shutter speed.
Hope this helps
Chris
I followed Chris 'instruction list' and used full M mode. It all worked fine (after I'd remembered to manually stop the lens down from full aperture for focusing ! Although the shots at f2 aren't bad !).
If I can use Av I presume I will still have to follow part of the check list e.g. tell the camera the focal length and press the green button after stopping down ?
This lens is totally manual, i.e. it has a manual ring to set full aperture for focusing which then has to be turned back to the end stop to get the preset aperture.
I'm a novice at this so all help is welcomed !
Thanks all
Peter
Posted 26/05/2012 - 19:01
Link
You will need to tell the camera the focal length, but it's not necessary to use the green button in Av mode. You only need to do that on K-mount lenses in M mode.
All the green button does is stop an M or K lens down momentarily and take a meter reading. That's because as you select different f stops on an M or K lens, the aperture actually remains open until you take a shot.
There's no need with an M42 lens; it will be stopped down anyway so aperture priority will work. If after focusing you return the aperture to the 'stopped down' position, the camera will meter in Av mode in real time.
All the green button does is stop an M or K lens down momentarily and take a meter reading. That's because as you select different f stops on an M or K lens, the aperture actually remains open until you take a shot.
There's no need with an M42 lens; it will be stopped down anyway so aperture priority will work. If after focusing you return the aperture to the 'stopped down' position, the camera will meter in Av mode in real time.
Posted 27/05/2012 - 09:13
Link
Pentaxophile wrote:
You will need to tell the camera the focal length, but it's not necessary to use the green button in Av mode. You only need to do that on K-mount lenses in M mode.
All the green button does is stop an M or K lens down momentarily and take a meter reading. That's because as you select different f stops on an M or K lens, the aperture actually remains open until you take a shot.
There's no need with an M42 lens; it will be stopped down anyway so aperture priority will work. If after focusing you return the aperture to the 'stopped down' position, the camera will meter in Av mode in real time.
Many thanks, Will.You will need to tell the camera the focal length, but it's not necessary to use the green button in Av mode. You only need to do that on K-mount lenses in M mode.
All the green button does is stop an M or K lens down momentarily and take a meter reading. That's because as you select different f stops on an M or K lens, the aperture actually remains open until you take a shot.
There's no need with an M42 lens; it will be stopped down anyway so aperture priority will work. If after focusing you return the aperture to the 'stopped down' position, the camera will meter in Av mode in real time.
I'll try that in an hour or so when the sun comes round the house.
Hopefully I'll be posting a sharper image of the Ceanothus blooms on the gallery later today !!!
Thanks again
Peter
Posted 27/05/2012 - 10:01
Link
Just a further note, after checking out yesterday's shot, if the camera is giving you slightly underxposed images when metering through the lens, dial in +0.7 or +1 EV of exposure compensation.
And another thing - the Helios 58mm is great wide-open. I have a K-mount version, and shoot it wide open all the time. Nice bokeh.
And another thing - the Helios 58mm is great wide-open. I have a K-mount version, and shoot it wide open all the time. Nice bokeh.
Posted 27/05/2012 - 17:42
Link
Pentaxophile wrote:
Just a further note, after checking out yesterday's shot, if the camera is giving you slightly underxposed images when metering through the lens, dial in +0.7 or +1 EV of exposure compensation.
And another thing - the Helios 58mm is great wide-open. I have a K-mount version, and shoot it wide open all the time. Nice bokeh.
Thanks again, Will.Just a further note, after checking out yesterday's shot, if the camera is giving you slightly underxposed images when metering through the lens, dial in +0.7 or +1 EV of exposure compensation.
And another thing - the Helios 58mm is great wide-open. I have a K-mount version, and shoot it wide open all the time. Nice bokeh.
I did find that the exposures were different when I used Av to those using M so for now I'm more comfortable using M and the green button as it tells me the shutter speed before shooting. This is important for what I've been attempting since shooting close up (generally around 1.9 ft according to the Helios scale) I needed to stop right down to get some reasonable DoF. The downside was the need to up the ISO to get a fast enough shutter speed to overcome the slight movements !
All-in-all I feel I've set myself quite a difficult task but one only learns by trying the difficult ! I'm glad I ventured into the realms of 'Manual lenses', I'd been nervous before but now feel quite bold !
I'll also continue experimenting with Av and look for some different opportunities to try the Helios opened up as others have also mentioned it is good at this.
Meanwhile, I've posted another attempt taken today !
Thanks again for all your help
Peter
Posted 27/05/2012 - 20:06
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Aha, I use this Helios lens on my K-r in Av mode and I can tell you it's capable of very nice images. You'll find you need to dial in plenty of exposure compensation in Av mode with this lens as you will with other m42 converted lenses with a plastic mount, something to do with the camera not thinking it has a lens on due to the contacts on the camera body not being shorted I believe.
I have to dial in nearly 2 stops plus exposure to give me consistantly exposed images. The main challenge for me is to remember to reset the exposure compensation back to normal when back on a standard lens
I have to dial in nearly 2 stops plus exposure to give me consistantly exposed images. The main challenge for me is to remember to reset the exposure compensation back to normal when back on a standard lens
Posted 27/05/2012 - 20:56
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bernado wrote:
Aha, I use this Helios lens on my K-r in Av mode and I can tell you it's capable of very nice images. You'll find you need to dial in plenty of exposure compensation in Av mode with this lens as you will with other m42 converted lenses with a plastic mount, something to do with the camera not thinking it has a lens on due to the contacts on the camera body not being shorted I believe.
I have to dial in nearly 2 stops plus exposure to give me consistantly exposed images. The main challenge for me is to remember to reset the exposure compensation back to normal when back on a standard lens
Thanks for the tip Brian.Aha, I use this Helios lens on my K-r in Av mode and I can tell you it's capable of very nice images. You'll find you need to dial in plenty of exposure compensation in Av mode with this lens as you will with other m42 converted lenses with a plastic mount, something to do with the camera not thinking it has a lens on due to the contacts on the camera body not being shorted I believe.
I have to dial in nearly 2 stops plus exposure to give me consistantly exposed images. The main challenge for me is to remember to reset the exposure compensation back to normal when back on a standard lens
My converter is actually a shiny aluminium one (from China!) so I shouldn't have the same problem as you have with plastic ones ?
However, as you and Will have said I'll try experimenting with the exposure compensation to see what looks best for my camera/lens combination.
I agree that the biggest problem will be all the re-setting when I put a standard lens back on ! (And then remembering what to do the next time I fit the Helios !)
Best regards
Peter
Posted 27/05/2012 - 21:28
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PeterKR wrote:
Thanks for the tip Brian.
My converter is actually a shiny aluminium one (from China!) so I shouldn't have the same problem as you have with plastic ones ?
Is your converter flangeless like mine (was!)? If so it fits inside the contact area of the camera body and although being aluminium, it doesn't bridge the contacts around the K mount. There are converters with a wider flange which extend beyond the mount into the contact area, which may be the kind you have. Although infinity focus is lost with this kind as the lens is now mounted further from the body than originally intended.Thanks for the tip Brian.
My converter is actually a shiny aluminium one (from China!) so I shouldn't have the same problem as you have with plastic ones ?
I use the past tense when referring to my converter as I had the panic of my life when the thing got jammed in the K-r. Luckily I had already removed the locking spring as a precaution but it took an eternity of wiggling before I managed to remove it. I repeated the process on an old scrap manual K1000 body and the same thing happened so it wasn't a fluke. Whilst not being a Pentax brand it wasn't a cheapola one either and from a UK company well thought of on this forum. To their credit they refunded me without question but if you haven't already, you might want to remove that locking spring
After that experience I ended up grafting a K mount from a scrap Pentax 50mm lens onto the Helios, but that's another story!
Posted 28/05/2012 - 10:50
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bernado wrote:
I use the past tense when referring to my converter as I had the panic of my life when the thing got jammed in the K-r. Luckily I had already removed the locking spring as a precaution but it took an eternity of wiggling before I managed to remove it. I repeated the process on an old scrap manual K1000 body and the same thing happened so it wasn't a fluke. Whilst not being a Pentax brand it wasn't a cheapola one either and from a UK company well thought of on this forum. To their credit they refunded me without question but if you haven't already, you might want to remove that locking spring
After that experience I ended up grafting a K mount from a scrap Pentax 50mm lens onto the Helios, but that's another story!
Many thanks for the warning, Brian.PeterKR wrote:
Thanks for the tip Brian.
My converter is actually a shiny aluminium one (from China!) so I shouldn't have the same problem as you have with plastic ones ?
Is your converter flangeless like mine (was!)? If so it fits inside the contact area of the camera body and although being aluminium, it doesn't bridge the contacts around the K mount. There are converters with a wider flange which extend beyond the mount into the contact area, which may be the kind you have. Although infinity focus is lost with this kind as the lens is now mounted further from the body than originally intended.Thanks for the tip Brian.
My converter is actually a shiny aluminium one (from China!) so I shouldn't have the same problem as you have with plastic ones ?
I use the past tense when referring to my converter as I had the panic of my life when the thing got jammed in the K-r. Luckily I had already removed the locking spring as a precaution but it took an eternity of wiggling before I managed to remove it. I repeated the process on an old scrap manual K1000 body and the same thing happened so it wasn't a fluke. Whilst not being a Pentax brand it wasn't a cheapola one either and from a UK company well thought of on this forum. To their credit they refunded me without question but if you haven't already, you might want to remove that locking spring
After that experience I ended up grafting a K mount from a scrap Pentax 50mm lens onto the Helios, but that's another story!
My adaptor does indeed fit inside the camera giving the advantage of focus to infinity. As it happens, I found that it would not fit with the small spring attached so I removed that and tried again with success.
However, being the cautious type, I made sure the converter was tightly screwed onto the Helios first and also checked that it would de-mount from the camera before I used it. Following your experience I'll probably superglue the converter onto the Helios now and meanwhile I've ordered a different low priced flanged converter from Hong Kong.
Thanks again
Peter
Posted 31/05/2012 - 16:54
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Just as a post script to this - I noticed after I grafted a K mount onto the Helios, I was constantly getting the camera's aperture lever mechanism (or something similar) activating all the time and clunking away. I also noticed this behaviour in the past when using auto extension tubes on the K-r in conjunction with some Pentax lenses.
Whilst the now metalicised base of the Helios meant I was getting correct exposure readings due to the body lens contacts being shorted, I didn't like the idea of the camera's internal mechanism constantly complaining, so I ended up insulating the contacts from the base of the lens with a small piece of tape. Not a very desireable/practical solution but it cured the problem, although I had to then go back to dialing in 1 & 2/3 stops over exposure as I had before modding the lens.
From researching this issue (and not to be confused with 'mirror flop') I found several posts referring to the problem and how it was related to certain lenses only. One commentator suggested from his testing of various lenses, he felt it was something to do with the tension of the lens aperture lever.
Now here's the funny thing, the cure for this was to use AA batteries via an adaptor rather than the standard Lion battery. I thought I would give this a go and having no expectation of it working, bought a cheapie Chinese one off Ebay link and blow me it works. I have no idea how or why, but all I can say is when using the above adaptor (which incidentally is totally fine) with some high capacity Duracell 24500mah rechargeables, I can now use the lens (and tubes) without any contact insulation and therefore no longer needing exposure compensation.
As an added bonus, battery life is way beyond what I have experienced before with the Lion cell.
Whilst the now metalicised base of the Helios meant I was getting correct exposure readings due to the body lens contacts being shorted, I didn't like the idea of the camera's internal mechanism constantly complaining, so I ended up insulating the contacts from the base of the lens with a small piece of tape. Not a very desireable/practical solution but it cured the problem, although I had to then go back to dialing in 1 & 2/3 stops over exposure as I had before modding the lens.
From researching this issue (and not to be confused with 'mirror flop') I found several posts referring to the problem and how it was related to certain lenses only. One commentator suggested from his testing of various lenses, he felt it was something to do with the tension of the lens aperture lever.
Now here's the funny thing, the cure for this was to use AA batteries via an adaptor rather than the standard Lion battery. I thought I would give this a go and having no expectation of it working, bought a cheapie Chinese one off Ebay link and blow me it works. I have no idea how or why, but all I can say is when using the above adaptor (which incidentally is totally fine) with some high capacity Duracell 24500mah rechargeables, I can now use the lens (and tubes) without any contact insulation and therefore no longer needing exposure compensation.
As an added bonus, battery life is way beyond what I have experienced before with the Lion cell.
Posted 31/05/2012 - 22:31
Link
bernado wrote:
Just as a post script to this - I noticed after I grafted a K mount onto the Helios, I was constantly getting the camera's aperture lever mechanism (or something similar) activating all the time and clunking away. I also noticed this behaviour in the past when using auto extension tubes on the K-r in conjunction with some Pentax lenses.
Whilst the now metalicised base of the Helios meant I was getting correct exposure readings due to the body lens contacts being shorted, I didn't like the idea of the camera's internal mechanism constantly complaining, so I ended up insulating the contacts from the base of the lens with a small piece of tape. Not a very desireable/practical solution but it cured the problem, although I had to then go back to dialing in 1 & 2/3 stops over exposure as I had before modding the lens.
From researching this issue (and not to be confused with 'mirror flop') I found several posts referring to the problem and how it was related to certain lenses only. One commentator suggested from his testing of various lenses, he felt it was something to do with the tension of the lens aperture lever.
Now here's the funny thing, the cure for this was to use AA batteries via an adaptor rather than the standard Lion battery. I thought I would give this a go and having no expectation of it working, bought a cheapie Chinese one off Ebay link and blow me it works. I have no idea how or why, but all I can say is when using the above adaptor (which incidentally is totally fine) with some high capacity Duracell 24500mah rechargeables, I can now use the lens (and tubes) without any contact insulation and therefore no longer needing exposure compensation.
As an added bonus, battery life is way beyond what I have experienced before with the Lion cell.
Many thanks for the update, Brian.Just as a post script to this - I noticed after I grafted a K mount onto the Helios, I was constantly getting the camera's aperture lever mechanism (or something similar) activating all the time and clunking away. I also noticed this behaviour in the past when using auto extension tubes on the K-r in conjunction with some Pentax lenses.
Whilst the now metalicised base of the Helios meant I was getting correct exposure readings due to the body lens contacts being shorted, I didn't like the idea of the camera's internal mechanism constantly complaining, so I ended up insulating the contacts from the base of the lens with a small piece of tape. Not a very desireable/practical solution but it cured the problem, although I had to then go back to dialing in 1 & 2/3 stops over exposure as I had before modding the lens.
From researching this issue (and not to be confused with 'mirror flop') I found several posts referring to the problem and how it was related to certain lenses only. One commentator suggested from his testing of various lenses, he felt it was something to do with the tension of the lens aperture lever.
Now here's the funny thing, the cure for this was to use AA batteries via an adaptor rather than the standard Lion battery. I thought I would give this a go and having no expectation of it working, bought a cheapie Chinese one off Ebay link and blow me it works. I have no idea how or why, but all I can say is when using the above adaptor (which incidentally is totally fine) with some high capacity Duracell 24500mah rechargeables, I can now use the lens (and tubes) without any contact insulation and therefore no longer needing exposure compensation.
As an added bonus, battery life is way beyond what I have experienced before with the Lion cell.
I'll certainly get one of the battery holders - at that price it's a 'no brainer'.
Meanwhile, I've just received a new converter from Hong Kong for the grand sum of £2.09 with free postage ! Came in 7 days from estores on ebay where I got my lens hoods for the DAL kit lenses. This one is flanged to sit OUTSIDE the K-r and is black anodised Al. I tried it with my old Prinz 135 and it is fine.
For now I'm happy to use 'M' and press the green button but when I get the battery holder I'll follow your tips to experiment. Incidentally estores also have one but theirs is dearer (£4.09 instead of £3.80 !!!)
Whatever, the better battery life is worth going for alone !
Thanks again for all your help - I'll keep you posted on developments.
Peter
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409 posts
14 years
Obviously I needed to set the K-r focus to Manual but as I needed to set the aperture manually on the Helios lens I wasn't sure what to do about exposure settings ? I don't have a separate light meter so wanted to use the K-r to chose shutter speed.
I guessed at using Av (since I WAS setting the aperture) and I manually set the ISO to 400.
I then set about taking some close up shots of our Ceanothus plant which I'd had problems getting sharp with my DAL 18-55.
I think the sharpness IS better but out of camera the images were a little dark and needed some PP to brighten them up.
I've just posted one of today's shots (Ceanothus III) on the gallery so you can check (and please compare with the previous Ceanothus and Ceanothus II, if you have time).
I'd be grateful for any help on using this lens and on manual settings on the K-r in general.
Thanks in advance
Peter