question about the Mz3
Posted 15/08/2004 - 22:25
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Hi,
You cannot use exposures of longer than 1 sec in manual unless you use B and a release. However, in auto the camera will take exposures of up to 30 secs. If you use auto, you can still use the self timer. How accurate these exposures will be will depend on the light level. The camera is only supposed t operate down to EV0. This is about 1 sec at F1.4 with 200ASA film. In practice it may go a bit lower than this. The only pentax which goes much lower than this is the LX which goes to EV-6.5.
Hope this helps
Kim
You cannot use exposures of longer than 1 sec in manual unless you use B and a release. However, in auto the camera will take exposures of up to 30 secs. If you use auto, you can still use the self timer. How accurate these exposures will be will depend on the light level. The camera is only supposed t operate down to EV0. This is about 1 sec at F1.4 with 200ASA film. In practice it may go a bit lower than this. The only pentax which goes much lower than this is the LX which goes to EV-6.5.
Hope this helps
Kim
Posted 15/08/2004 - 22:27
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ok but the mz6 is capable of that right?
Posted 15/08/2004 - 22:29
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what if i set the shutter speed on auto and the rest on manual?
Posted 15/08/2004 - 22:34
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Hi,
The MZ-6 goes to EV-1 or about 2 secs at F1.4 with 200ASA. Still a long way from the LX
It should work if you use aperture priority ie set the shutter speed on auto and select the aperture. I haven't tried such long exposures on the MZ-3 yet. It certainly works on the LX because there isn't a program mode
Kim
The MZ-6 goes to EV-1 or about 2 secs at F1.4 with 200ASA. Still a long way from the LX
It should work if you use aperture priority ie set the shutter speed on auto and select the aperture. I haven't tried such long exposures on the MZ-3 yet. It certainly works on the LX because there isn't a program mode
Kim
Posted 15/08/2004 - 22:52
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I´m a newbie so I´m really understanding what you are writing (I appreciate it a lot though) but you mean that the mz6 is more capable? im not totally with you when you are writing about EV...
Posted 16/08/2004 - 00:29
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Hi,
There is a very good guide on EV or exposure value here.
http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
It will save me lots of typing
To answer the other question, the Pentax website says the MZ-6 goes from EV-1 to 21, the manual says EV0 to 21. I suspect there is little difference in the sensitivity of the meters of the 2 cameras. The MZ-6 many more program modes but the MZ-3 is easier to use a "traditional" camera where you make the decisions rather than rely on the automatics.
There is a very good guide on EV or exposure value here.
http://www.fredparker.com/ultexp1.htm
It will save me lots of typing
To answer the other question, the Pentax website says the MZ-6 goes from EV-1 to 21, the manual says EV0 to 21. I suspect there is little difference in the sensitivity of the meters of the 2 cameras. The MZ-6 many more program modes but the MZ-3 is easier to use a "traditional" camera where you make the decisions rather than rely on the automatics.
Posted 17/08/2004 - 19:42
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thanx for the great link.
Posted 17/08/2004 - 21:40
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"what if i set the shutter speed on auto and the rest on manual?"
Hi Anikgol
what you are suggesting there is something called aperture priority - you select the aperture, and let the camera choose the appropriate shutter speed to go with it. In this mode, the shutter speed can go up to 30 seconds and, as Kim states, you can use the self timer. However, you are limited to 1 second in manual (where you select aperture AND shutter speed) as the dial only actually goes up to 1 second. I'm pretty sure you can still use the self-timer though.
I don't want to complicate the issue, but if you have long shutter times you start to get something called reprocity failure (or is it reciprocity failure, I'm not sure, there seem to be different spellings!). The problem comes down to the fact that film behaves a little differently in very low light levels (as would be seen with shutter speeds more than approx. 1 to 1.5 seconds). In effect, the sensitivity of the film changes, and you need a longer exposure than your meter will recommend - there is a linear relationship between the amount of light (controlled by aperture value) and the duration that light hits the film (the shutter speed). Under normal operating conditions halving the aperture (hence halving the 'light per second') requires double the time. However, at longer shutter speeds, this relationship breaks down and you actually need a bit more light. A simple way to imagine this is that if you had a candle 500 meters from the camera in an otherwise pitch-black room (bloody big room!), even if you left the shutter open indefinitely (and hence received some light onto the film, albeit tiny amounts) the film would never react to the candlelight as it just isn't intense enough to cause a photosensitive reaction in the film. For more detail (and a less confused explanation!), please see
http://www.agfanet.com/en/cafe/photocourse/classiccourse/9805/cont03.php3, from which I've pulled the following quote:
"Practically that only works in the range of 1-1/1000 s. Even exposures of over one second are underexposed. The effective useable film sensitivity declines with longer exposure. This is not linear and certainly not identical with different types of film. The exposure time has to be extended over and above the measured value.
"
the basic upshot is that most longer shutter speed exposures require that you add a bit of exposure on the end - you can use the exposure compensation if required, but most people (those who take night shots) tend to use the bulb setting with a cable release and lock. Further to this, and as Kim again states, the actual meter of a camera only has a certain 'sensitivity', the MZ-3 is pretty sensitive, better than the MZ-60, but not as good as the LX (which was the original Pentax 'Pro' level camera). In this respect, if you're looking to use longer exposures you might be best served by geting a cable release and adding some extra exposure time, as even if the meter is 'correct' there is no guarantee that the relationship between aperture and shutter speed will still hold.
I hope this helps, rather than just confuses
Matt
Hi Anikgol
what you are suggesting there is something called aperture priority - you select the aperture, and let the camera choose the appropriate shutter speed to go with it. In this mode, the shutter speed can go up to 30 seconds and, as Kim states, you can use the self timer. However, you are limited to 1 second in manual (where you select aperture AND shutter speed) as the dial only actually goes up to 1 second. I'm pretty sure you can still use the self-timer though.
I don't want to complicate the issue, but if you have long shutter times you start to get something called reprocity failure (or is it reciprocity failure, I'm not sure, there seem to be different spellings!). The problem comes down to the fact that film behaves a little differently in very low light levels (as would be seen with shutter speeds more than approx. 1 to 1.5 seconds). In effect, the sensitivity of the film changes, and you need a longer exposure than your meter will recommend - there is a linear relationship between the amount of light (controlled by aperture value) and the duration that light hits the film (the shutter speed). Under normal operating conditions halving the aperture (hence halving the 'light per second') requires double the time. However, at longer shutter speeds, this relationship breaks down and you actually need a bit more light. A simple way to imagine this is that if you had a candle 500 meters from the camera in an otherwise pitch-black room (bloody big room!), even if you left the shutter open indefinitely (and hence received some light onto the film, albeit tiny amounts) the film would never react to the candlelight as it just isn't intense enough to cause a photosensitive reaction in the film. For more detail (and a less confused explanation!), please see
http://www.agfanet.com/en/cafe/photocourse/classiccourse/9805/cont03.php3, from which I've pulled the following quote:
"Practically that only works in the range of 1-1/1000 s. Even exposures of over one second are underexposed. The effective useable film sensitivity declines with longer exposure. This is not linear and certainly not identical with different types of film. The exposure time has to be extended over and above the measured value.
"
the basic upshot is that most longer shutter speed exposures require that you add a bit of exposure on the end - you can use the exposure compensation if required, but most people (those who take night shots) tend to use the bulb setting with a cable release and lock. Further to this, and as Kim again states, the actual meter of a camera only has a certain 'sensitivity', the MZ-3 is pretty sensitive, better than the MZ-60, but not as good as the LX (which was the original Pentax 'Pro' level camera). In this respect, if you're looking to use longer exposures you might be best served by geting a cable release and adding some extra exposure time, as even if the meter is 'correct' there is no guarantee that the relationship between aperture and shutter speed will still hold.
I hope this helps, rather than just confuses
Matt
Posted 17/08/2004 - 22:31
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There is only one way to spell reciprocity. Anything else is either an error or a different word. Think of reciprocate or reciprocal.
Posted 17/08/2004 - 22:57
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Hi George
It seems to be a common mistake (judging from google searches, giving quite a few use of the word reprocity). I wonder if it's associated with the idea of 'reproducing'? There is a logic that suggests you are reproducing exposures using different settings.
Apologies, I got mine the wrong way round in my post, using reprocity as the 'correct' and reciprocity as the alternative. I was attemping to indicate that there is some confusion over the correct spelling (sadly, I seem to be included in this), and both words are used synonymously - well, they would be if reprocity was in fact a word!
I will write 100 times, reciprocity...........
Matt
It seems to be a common mistake (judging from google searches, giving quite a few use of the word reprocity). I wonder if it's associated with the idea of 'reproducing'? There is a logic that suggests you are reproducing exposures using different settings.
Apologies, I got mine the wrong way round in my post, using reprocity as the 'correct' and reciprocity as the alternative. I was attemping to indicate that there is some confusion over the correct spelling (sadly, I seem to be included in this), and both words are used synonymously - well, they would be if reprocity was in fact a word!
I will write 100 times, reciprocity...........
Matt
Posted 17/08/2004 - 23:18
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None of us is perfect. I myself am particularly susceptible to draughts.
Posted 18/08/2004 - 00:23
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Hi,
As an aside, the LX meter seems to be able to cope with the problem. When I first started to take long exposures with the LX, I would always bracket on the long side to take account of the problem. However, I soon found that the LX's meter always came up with the right answer with no compensation. I suspect that the integration suffers from reciprocity in the same way as the film and cancels it out even with exposures over 30 secs!
As another aside, I was doing some research for a question that was asked elsewhere and you can suffer from reciprocity failure on very short exposures too. The early Pentax flasguns such as the Superlite II quoted 2 GNs, one for colour and another for B/W. I suspect that this is because the colour emulsions of the time were quite slow and the modern relatively high speed emulsions can cope. It could, however, cause problems using a powerful gun on auto with a large aperture. The flash could get so short that the film can't react in time.
Kim
As an aside, the LX meter seems to be able to cope with the problem. When I first started to take long exposures with the LX, I would always bracket on the long side to take account of the problem. However, I soon found that the LX's meter always came up with the right answer with no compensation. I suspect that the integration suffers from reciprocity in the same way as the film and cancels it out even with exposures over 30 secs!
As another aside, I was doing some research for a question that was asked elsewhere and you can suffer from reciprocity failure on very short exposures too. The early Pentax flasguns such as the Superlite II quoted 2 GNs, one for colour and another for B/W. I suspect that this is because the colour emulsions of the time were quite slow and the modern relatively high speed emulsions can cope. It could, however, cause problems using a powerful gun on auto with a large aperture. The flash could get so short that the film can't react in time.
Kim
Posted 19/08/2004 - 17:43
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im amazed that for a pretty small board as this one (it´s not that big), there are so many helpful people who answer so greatly .
Thanx for you help so far every one. Great replies. it really helped a lot.
Thanx for you help so far every one. Great replies. it really helped a lot.
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21 posts
21 years
Im afraid that this camera lacks this and i must do this with a cable right?? instead of setting the timer. a disappointment if i cant use the timer to take pictures with shutter speed less than 1 second...