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Photographing the moon

Billywhizz
Posted 15/02/2014 - 19:42 Link
It seems that after some unsuccessful results I have finally managed to capture the moon with a respectable picture. Using K-5 and the popular Sigma 150-500mm on full zoom. I may require a better tripod than the one I'm currently using, but that will when I've decided which one from the confusing array of choices. Comments and advice please!Comment Image


If the sky stays clear I may get another chance to improve on this image.
Edited by Billywhizz: 15/02/2014 - 19:43
Smeggypants
Posted 15/02/2014 - 20:14 - Helpful Comment Link
You need to stand a bit closer
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Billywhizz
Posted 15/02/2014 - 21:23 Link
Now why didn't I think of that!..
tobybarker
Posted 17/02/2014 - 12:04 Link
What were the capture settings please?
Trevor Smith

Pentax K30
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ChrisA
Posted 17/02/2014 - 12:25 Link
At 1/1000s, you really don't need to worry much about shake.

And you can afford to have the lens much wider open than F14, thereby giving yourself the chance of using an ISO less than 3200.

Not at all bad, though.
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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greynolds999
Posted 17/02/2014 - 13:51 Link
What is the slowest speed you can use, ignoring camera shake?

Assuming you don't have a fancy motorized tripod, the moon is effectively moving across the sky, so how slow can you go before you get motion blur?
Darkmunk
Posted 17/02/2014 - 14:54 - Helpful Comment Link
I routinely shoot at 100th, f5.6 ish with mirror up.
Not sure if that's too slow, but I'm trying to avoid noise as that drives me up the wall with moon shots
You shot is good Billywhizz, nice and naturally sharp. Got a bit of a pink cast on the left half?
ChrisA
Posted 17/02/2014 - 17:31 Link
greynolds999 wrote:
What is the slowest speed you can use, ignoring camera shake?

Assuming you don't have a fancy motorized tripod, the moon is effectively moving across the sky, so how slow can you go before you get motion blur?

I worked it all out once - don't have the details to hand, but I seem to recall that the movement blur is, surprisingly, less than a pixel on the sensor with exposures as slow as about 1/25.

Certainly you're Ok at 1/100, even with the higher resolution of the K-3. Though you need to take a lot more care about ensuring that the tripod doesn't shake.

Here's one of mine:

Comment Image


K-5 1/100s, F10, ISO 100

And another, with the 50-500:

Comment Image


A bit underexposed, possibly, I overcompensated for the fact that the full moon is enormously brighter than when it's not full. It always looks better when the light is slightly from the side, though - the shadows create a lot more interesting detail.

The good Dr Orloff is the king of moonshots around here, I seem to recall.
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Edited by ChrisA: 17/02/2014 - 17:37
petrochemist
Posted 17/02/2014 - 18:18 Link
ChrisA wrote:


A bit underexposed, possibly, I overcompensated for the fact that the full moon is enormously brighter than when it's not full.

Sorry you're wrong here.
The bright part of the moon is in full sunlight at every phase so is always at the same brightness. Unless you are trying to capture the unlit side or taking during an eclipse the exposure required remains the same.

Exposure is best done with spot metering or fully manual, otherwise the amount of dark sky will confuse the camera (This normally wants to be black). IIRC the guideline exposure is 1/ISO seconds at f8.

Surely the motion blur is dependant on the focal length - I know with my telescope it can take only ~10s for the viewed portion to completely change.
Mike
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Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.

.[size=11:].FlickrWPFPanoramio
ChrisA
Posted 17/02/2014 - 18:30 Link
petrochemist wrote:
ChrisA wrote:


A bit underexposed, possibly, I overcompensated for the fact that the full moon is enormously brighter than when it's not full.

Sorry you're wrong here.

The bright part of the moon is in full sunlight at every phase so is always at the same brightness. Unless you are trying to capture the unlit side or taking during an eclipse the exposure required remains the same.

Yes, but it's lit obliquely relative to the observer, whereas it's lit (virtually) directly at full moon.

Are you saying this is wrong?

And this (fifth paragraph)?
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Edited by ChrisA: 17/02/2014 - 18:31
ChrisA
Posted 17/02/2014 - 18:40 Link
petrochemist wrote:
Surely the motion blur is dependant on the focal length

Yes of course. I'd have to repeat the calculation, but IIRC I worked on the basis of the angle of view of a K10D sensor and a 500mm lens (or maybe 400mm, since I don't think I had the Bigma at the time - I used a SMC-A 400mm F5.6 for my earlier moon shots). So it would be a bit shorter for a 1px blur with the more recent higher-res sensors.

Feel free to save me the effort of working it all out again for the K-5
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Edited by ChrisA: 17/02/2014 - 18:42
dcweather
Posted 17/02/2014 - 21:03 Link
ChrisA wrote:
[quote:3496ace15f="petrochemist"] So it would be a bit shorter for a 1px blur with the more recent higher-res sensors.


Could you explain this to me a bit more please. Does this mean I need a faster shutter speed to eliminate movement blur in a bird shot with my K3 than I did with my K30?
ChrisA
Posted 18/02/2014 - 00:03 Link
dcweather wrote:
ChrisA wrote:
So it would be a bit shorter for a 1px blur with the more recent higher-res sensors.

Could you explain this to me a bit more please. Does this mean I need a faster shutter speed to eliminate movement blur in a bird shot with my K3 than I did with my K30?

It depends how you measure movement blur. Sure, if the pixels are smaller, a 1 pixel blur will need a shorter exposure to eliminate than a 1 pixel blur if the pixels are bigger. But that doesn't mean that in practice you'll notice any difference.

For a start unless you view the image at 100%, you're throwing pixels away anyway, so you couldn't possibly tell in the final image.

And movement that crosses a smaller 1px boundary may not look any less sharp than movement that didn't cross a larger 1px boundary, but which wasn't as sharp in the first place.

All you know is that if you have movement that crosses a pixel boundary during the exposure, your image isn't as sharp as it would have been if you'd used a shorter exposure that prevented it.

So the maximum possible sharpness (ie absence of movement blur) achievable with the K-3 requires a shorter exposure than the maximum possible sharpness achievable with the K30. But that only reflects the fact that there's more detail available with a higher resolution sensor.

You can think of it as using the faster shutter speed on the K-3, to prevent the loss of detail that you wouldn't have been able to see at all on the K30
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Edited by ChrisA: 18/02/2014 - 00:21
petrochemist
Posted 18/02/2014 - 00:11 Link
ChrisA wrote:

Yes, but it's lit obliquely relative to the observer, whereas it's lit (virtually) directly at full moon.

Are you saying this is wrong?

And this (fifth paragraph)?

I apologise for doubting you, your links look highly plausible. I was just going by comments I've read in several of my Astrophotography books & astrophotography websites...

The rule of thumb I quoted does work reasonably well, so the effect is fairly small. One of your links suggests ~2.5 stops maximum, I be surprised if it works out as much as that.
Mike
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Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.

.[size=11:].FlickrWPFPanoramio
petrochemist
Posted 18/02/2014 - 08:13 Link
petrochemist wrote:
One of your links suggests ~2.5 stops maximum, I be surprised if it works out as much as that.

Thinking about it 1.5 stops either side would cover the variation which is more reasonable. Personal taste will often cover a larger spread in exposure.
Mike
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Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.

.[size=11:].FlickrWPFPanoramio

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