Pentax Vs Canon & Nikon

I have used Pentax film cameras all the way since schooldays (long time ago)and very happy. However, since digital, I know I am losing out....frankly, my 1stDS is a bit of a toy in comparision with Nikon & Canon. The new 20 is 'almost there' except for two important issues:
1. Available lenses.
2. Autofocus.
My 1stDS autofocus just can't cope with fast moving situations, especially on a telephoto zoom, far too slow to react. I'm not sure the new 20 is any better...

I do quite a bit of freelance & library work, and it looks like I might have to finally make the switch from Pentax to either Nikon or Canon.....and I really don't want to do this!

Anybody else have autofocus problems?

Try one of the new SDM lenses on a body that supports them.

It's true that the best (and most expensive) Canon and Nikon bodies do have very good AF. And if that is very important to you, then you may need to switch brands. However, it is reliably (?!) rumoured that Pentax will pay attention to AF on their next body, which will probably be out later this year or early next.

For me, and I am not a sports photographer, the AF is quite good enough, especially with an SDM lens. The other factors, such as superior ergonomics, small size, great lenses (there were gaps once, but the lens range is now pretty good, and all new) make a pretty compelling case for choosing Pentax.

Your *ist DS is an old model, and a budget one at that. The K10D and K20D will be a revelation to you.

G

Having moved to the K20D from the Ds I can confirm that the AF is much better, and SDM is a revelation to me. That said I am not a sports photographer, so whether it will satisfy you I can't say.

You will also pay a lot more for Canon or Nikon shake reduced lenses remember - Pentax has that in body - for N&C you have to buy special lenses.

I know the other day I was taking photos of birds over at the salt lakes here and had a very hard time with the speed of the autofocus while trying to track them in flight.
It's the first time I have come across this and is probably more to do with the lenses I use (not got a SDM lens yet) than anything else but I notice a lot of Pentax users on other forums do change brands quite often if they do a lot of sports stuff.

Mike-P wrote:

"I was taking photos of birds over at the salt lakes here and had a very hard time with the speed of the autofocus while trying to track them in flight"

It was photographing birds in flight (and a moving horse's head) that was causing me autofocus problems..........the 1stDS would just 'hang' and not take any pictures. I find only way round this is to go totally manual.
I'm not a sports photographer, but I frequently photograph animals.

My problem was the lock on, the lens (Sigma 135-400mm DGA PO) would hunt a bit before getting the initial focus and by the time it did the bird had gone. I cannot put it down to a light problem either as it was probably a bright a day that you are ever likely to get in Spain so I must put it down to the lens or the camera.
The times where I did manage to lock on the bird (AF.C and auto select) it was fine and would track with no problem and the shutter would fire straight away.

Anyway, that's the K10D, not sure if the K20D is faster but I do know that when I get it right (not that often) the pictures look as good, if not better than anything produced by a Canon or Nikon.

One of the shots I took just to show it did actually work sometimes

The way that Pentax addresses autofocus has always been different to the others - they use a double check which is missing from Canon and Nikon cameras as far as I know.

So a C/N will get its initial focus and fire, whereas a Pentax will get initial focus, then confirm it, then fire. The K20D has an option to switch this double check off, thereby apparently speeding up the autofocus, at the expense of possibly not being quite in focus.

I still use the K10D so can't say whether this works or not, but I'm generally happy with the focusing of my K10D with DA*300mm for animal shots.

Dan

I have played with a friends Nikon D80 and a prime and the focussing was so much quicker and quieter. I also tried another friends Canon Xti with a 17-40 2.8 lens and again the focussing was so much quicker and so much quieter. I don't have the best les selections but the competition was quicker and quieter than my 50 f1.4 and I would be very surprised if the SDM lenses were even close to the speed of the competition.

Needless to say, I did not choose Pentax for its' speed but I will buy a second hand Nikon for my second body rather than a Pentax but still upgrade to the K20D or whatever is out there when I have the funds. Best of both worlds in my opinion but I won't be able to afford the best glass for the Nikon but the speed will be all I am after.

Pentax is still the best all round SLR for me and being an all round photographer....

I've never owned an SLR other than Pentax, so I can't comment on other brands.

However, I've read many people criticising Pentax AF, and all the reports I read compare focus speed (ie, time-to-lock) without also comparing focus accuracy.

Somehow it doesn't seem to me to be a valid thing to exclude from such comparisons.

Why?

There are two factors determining focus speed - the speed of the control system (which gives instructions) and the speed of the actual mechanism.

Pentax's SDM system (the mechanism) is the newest such system on the market, and should be very quick. Certainly I find it quick.

As Daniel says, the Pentax control mechanism puts accuracy before speed, so is inevitably slightly slower than the competition - but it is more accurate.

Overall, I would not expect the SDM lenses to be very much slower than Copiercams or the other make whose name I forget.

I have many sharp pictures of birds in flight using a *ist D and F* 300mm. It takes practice; if the bird leaves the centre of the frame you will quickly find yourself focussing on the nearest cloud.

Despite all the electronics, there is still a role for the photographer to play, and a few skills for him to learn. Focussing on moving objects is one of them.

G

Because as you said, Pentax control mechanism puts accuracy before speed

Credit where credit is due. I have tried an SDM lens in a store and it wasn't as quick but it may be as quiet.

SDM lenses, in my experience, are not very quick, but the lack of noise does help towards the perception.

Off the top of my head, our 50 1.4 focusses a lot faster, and my FA 100 Macro focusses so quick (when used as a 'normal' lens, not for macro), that it is like a gun recoil, it really does move and jerk the camera around in your hands!

To put Pentax cameras in perspective, price wise, with the only other camera I know anything about, the Nikon D3 (a neighbour has one):-

The Nikon D3 has something like a 50+ point focussing system and can fire shots at about 9 fps, shake reduction is achieved within the lens making them expensive.

The Pentax has an 11 point focus system and can fire shots at about 3 fps., shake reduction is achieved within the camera body so all lenses, even old ones, benefit.

The Nikon D3 body costs almost £3000.00, the K20D under £700.00.

I know these are not exactly like-for-like cameras, but you pays your money and takes your choice.

I can certainly attest to this.

I've had the K10D for a little over a year and a half now, and my "in-focus" hit rate is considerably higher than it was at the beginning.

I photograph dance events from time to time, and these are usually quite dark, with moving subjects. Possibly one of the worst AF tests possible, yet my results are hugely better than they were, even with the original 18-55.

I'm not even sure what I'm doing differently, although sometimes I notice myself instinctively pointing at higher contrast parts (faces, often) of the frame to focus, and reframing, sometimes only a little, to take the picture - all within a very short time.

Now it may be that other brands have better AF, and if I had one of them I wouldn't have had to develop as much skill to compensate for the electronics.

But fortunately I seem not to need the better electronics now.

Maybe the camera has just realised that I'm not going to give it an F2.8 16-50 or 50-135 to look through yet, so it had just better get used to seeing through the slower lenses - and shape up anyway.

I think the jerkiness and the noise suggest to you that things are happening rapidly.

I don't know how much glass there is to move in each of the lenses you mention, but I don't think it is instructive to compare the relative focussing speeds of totally different lenses.

A better test would be to compare a Sigma on several different makes and models of camera.

G