Outdoor shots often underexposed with Optio A20

Hello,

I've recently bought an Optio A20 and very nice it is too - except that most outdoor shots appear underexposed, even when taken in good light. Even I can correct the images on my PC by using MS Photoshop editor, but if I don't do this they appear too dark (when displayed on TV or computer monitor). It is a problem for me, because I like to view and share the photos via TV, and this makes having to post-process the images impracticable.

Almost always, I use the "Auto Picture" mode. I would like to experiment with the AE Metering option - but I find the modes in which this option is available a bit too confusing and time-consuming to use.

As you can probably tell, I am not a "serious" photographer and I would appreciate any tips on how/if this is correctable using options that, once configured, can be re-used easily without having to go into various menus every time I switch on the camera. Or perhaps it could be a fault with the particular camera that I have?

Regards,
Colin

Unless you are prepared to invest a little time in learning how to use your camera properly, you will always be disappointed in the results.

There is no quick fix. Experiment until the camera performs as you wish it to.

G

I have an A20 and it produces very nice sharp pictures that need minimal adjustment. I suggest you set the mode to P (Program) and there should not be a problem.

However, as with all cameras, if you don't think about the photography you won't get the best results. If, for example, you have lots of sky in your shots then the pictures may well be dark.

Why not shoot some pictures of moderate outdoor subjects (phone boxes, flowers, whatever takes your fancy) on the P setting and see what happens. If that's OK then maybe a basic book on photography will give you enough information to make a huge difference.

It does need some investment of time and effort to get the results.

I find my Lumix compact (I know, heresy, its not a Pentax) tends to overexpose a bit in normal light conditions. Through trial and error I have found that it overexposes by ~+2/3 of a stop, so now I leave the exposure compensation on at -2/3 most of the time. I find this increases the proportion of acceptable images. If your A20 is underexposing by a consistant amount the same idea might work for you.

If you were shooting an SLR I would agree with George, and to get the best shots he is certainly right, but a point and shoot should provide acceptable images without fiddling, that's why its called a point and shoot.

In the sense that the images are pretty much ready for printing as they are, unlike a DSLR, I agree. But the A20 is not a beginners camera by any means - it is bristling with options and it takes a little work to get the best out of it. In many ways a DSLR is much easier to use!

The most difficult thing about the A20 is that everythhing is in a menu system, so you need to know what you want to do and how to find it quickly. This is just a matter af practice, but photographic knowledge hepls a lot.

Well, but the manufacturer doesn't call it a "point and shoot". Pentax say it is "packed with advanced features. The flagship of the Optio digital camera line, the high-end PENTAX Optio A20, offers the pinnacle of PENTAX compact digital photography in an ultra-compact aluminum alloy body". It also has "a versatile manual shooting mode".

In other words, it may be a compact camera, but it's not a point and shoot within the normal meaning of that somewhat dismissive term.

All those bells and whistles are there for a purpose, and if the owner doesn't want to bother with them, he should have bought a different camera. A real point and shoot, with no user-adjustable facilities.


G

I think that's being a little unfair George - I have what I term a Point & Shoot camera, a Canon Powershot S60, which I bought for it's P&S qualities when lugging an SLR round is too much. I did however go for a fairly high-end model like the S60 so that it still has all the "bells and whistles" when I want them. I find that it's great in P&S mode but when I want to tweak the settings, spot meter, exp comp, manual focus etc etc it will do as I ask. But it also does very nicely thankyou left in Program or AUTO mode.

I certainly don't expect to have to manually adjust the settings for every single shot that I take with it. I do however know when some of the auto settings won't be ideal and can change if required. Yes a little knowledge is helpful and allows me to get the best out of it but there are times when you want it to fulfill those P&S duties...

Here's a shot that I took on the S60 in P&S mode - I'd have been very happy to take this shot no matter what was in my hand!



Sometimes people who don't know as much as you do (and I'm very grateful for all your advice that I've sought) come on here to ask for help with what they do have - not to be told "...should have bought a different camera." Perhaps helping out with some of the bells and whistles would be more constructive...?

Will

Will,

I don't think you can really argue with the contention that if the OP is not going to use the facilities, there was no point in paying for them.

And a little knowledge on the photographer's part is going to yield dividends, even in AUTO mode. Like including less sky in the frame in order to brighten the foreground, or alternatively using the AE adjustment to compensate.

My point is that if he wants to improve his results, there is only one way to do it, and that is to acquire a little photographic knowledge.

The impression the OP gave was that he doesn't want to have any part in the photographic process apart from pointing the camera and pressing the shutter. Frankly, that attitude is never going to yield good results, and I do find it a little bit irritating when people think that everything in life can be bought; and that there is no need for personal effort.

Perhaps I am being unfair to the OP, but that is how he came across to me.

Perhaps this attitiude is partly the fault of advertising that suggests great results can be achieved just by buying the right equipment. Sadly, that is not the case.

G

If I may use this single reply to George's post for a general reply to the thread: many thanks to all who have taken the time to reply - there are certainly enough suggestions for me to experiment with.

My current thoughts (on re-reading the manual in view of the responses on this thread) are to try out the EV compensation, in combination with other settings available in Program mode and perhaps to try out the Green mode more. I had considered the bright sky in my photos, and various tests showed that that wasn't the problem (ie the images were dark even in uniform light with scenes containing little or no sky).

In reply to George's points: what I was trying to say is that I am unwilling to have to set a number of options each time I want to take an ordinary outdoor shot in decent light, but I am more than happy to experiment in order to get the required settings, providing I can save and recall them easily. In fact, I am now looking forward to experimenting, the last time I did this was 30+ years ago (with a Yashica Minister-D, if anyone's interested) and I do remember some basics, but as I said I do not claim to be a serious photographer.

Incidentally, is it not true that whenever we buy a piece of high-tec equipment nowadays we often pay for features we do not use (on TVs, watches, DVDs, PCs etc)? I know where you're coming from, but I bought the A20 mainly for brand quality; compact design; 10Mp and, well yes, ease-of-use. Perhaps the choice of camera was a mistake for the last category.

Regards,
Colin

Agreed but then it might have been a gift? I bought my Brother a Pentax S5z for Xmas - he won't use any more features than if I'd bought him a cardboard disposable but still he wanted a Digi-compact. Sometimes it's nice to have 'nice toy' to play with

I don't think anyone would contend with that George, perhaps that's why Colin posted on here? To get a little advice? Every time I'm with my folks and the cameras are out at family get togethers, I'm always asked for a little help why P&S flash shots don't work - sometimes just a couple of small pointers can pay huge dividends.

The biggest single mistake I see people making with a P&S is trying to take pics of people in front of a floodlit building or great view at dusk/night and wondering why when the flash has gone off all they can see in the pic is the person and not the wonderful view in the background

I also agree with you about people buying into something expecting it to make them great at whatever - cameras is one example and I see way too many people buying SLR's as they think they have to have one to take great shots. Another example is bloody Premiership footballers buying a Ferrari and expecting to be able to drive like Nigel Mansell . People are often better off with kit that suits their abilities but coming back to the thread here I would fully expect to be able to buy a compact digital camera and for it (not me!) to be able to take reasonable pictures 80% of the time without fettling and changing of modes etc. This P&S ability is exactly why the manufacturer put the Auto-pic modes there in the first place so that those with little knowledge can get acceptable shots most of the time.

Our beloved K10D is a prime example of this - there are no auto-pic modes because Pentax expect a degree of knowledge and understanding from it's users. If Colin here was complaining about not getting good shots on the K10D and not wanting to take it off P mode then I think we'd all agree that he wasn't trying hard enough.

My guess is that Colin here does have some knowledge or he wouldn't have found this wonderful forum - he can clearly recognise underexposure and is aware that something isn't right. I can't say for sure as I've never used an Optio A20. Yes in some situations the camera can be fooled into under-exposing, as you say too much sky is often a major culprit here. But the metering systems on most modern P&S cameras are reasonably sophisticated. Perhaps the camera is as fault? One way of checking this out would be to take some prints from it or a memory card with some examples of under-exposure back to the dealer. Any dealer worth their salt would be able to tell immediately and if they are familiar with the camera offer some advice. Maybe even try another A20 alongside it in the same conditions and see if they come up with the same results?

All too often it is user error - but sometimes things don't work quite as well as they might...

EDIT: Crossed in the post - It's certainly well worth experimenting Colin but as I've said above I'd think it fair to expect decent pics from it most of the time. Have a go and let us know how you get on...

Will,

Except for the fact that the camera was bought by Colin, I take your points.

And Colin's, too.

Obviously the camera should be checked out by the dealer, in case it does have a fault. But if there is nothing wrong with it, I am sure Colin will be able to get better results in due course, with some practice and experimentation.

And I certainly agree that a lot of menu-diving should not be necessary, and would be very tedious.

G

My first digi p&s was and is an Optio S50, after years of experience of film from 35mm to 5x4 I was initially disappointed by my efforts with it. It took quite a bit of work using 25 years of photographic knowledge to get the results I wanted - and the pictures can be exceptionally good. However, as George rightly says, people want instant gratification and manufacturers promise it.

My first SLR camera was a Zenith B and I spent many hours just practising without film and poring over Ronald Spillman's little hardback book that came with it before shooting a frame of film. Now, pinholes excepted, there cant be any camera much simpler than a Zenith B, think how much more complicated any digi P&S is by comparison. You have to work at it and IMHO you need some basic photographic knowledge to get the best from them, in fact, I think the S50 is harder to operate than the *istDS but that may be due to my familiarity with SLRs.

Without seeing Colin's pictures I hazard a guess that there is a large area of sky in them.

Ken

Hi Colin, and welcome to the forum..

Just a thought, but if you look around the forum you'll find many threads on monitor calibration, a crucial part of digital photography if you want to view the results you'd expect on screen. Most televisions will be adjusted to be slightly darker than normal, as there is always generally going to be ambient light to contest with. Monitors can also be set too dark, especially for someone who is sitting in front of one for any period of time.

I'd suggest popping down to your local photo printer, and getting a couple of typical 'underexposed' (and unprocessed) images printed. That way you will have a far better idea of how dark your monitor/TV is.

It may well be that both are fine and the prints are indeed too dark, but it's a simple thing to check.

There is a program called WIZIWIG, a free monitor/printer calibration tool, that will get your monitor output pretty acurate. Here's a link.. any questions about setting up will of course be answered.

http://www.tucows.com/start_dl/207333_85190_758/dlp/

Hope that helps,

Cheers
Liam