No 10 - Road Tax Petition

Some of you may wish to sign the petition on the No. 10 website about the excessive road tax that we will all be paying as from next year, unless the government can be persuaded to do another u-turn.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/UNFAIR-VED/

Vehicle Excise Duty or "Road Fund Tax" as I believe it was once called, was a tax for vehicle users to fund the upkeep of existing roads and fund new roads. What happened?
Our roads are a disgrace, it's no good putting down a layer of chippings every couple of years as that only hides the problem.
I do not object to paying the car tax but I do object to it being used for something other than it was originally introduced for.

Basing road tax on engine size is ridiculous, as a so-called 'green' measure.

I could own an old Rolls Royce, with its huge engine and single-digit miles per gallon... and if I only got it out a couple of times a year it would have a smaller carbon footprint than a little 1 litre Fiesta that was driven every day.

The only fair way of taxing people's carbon footprint is to tax their use of fuel - the more they use, the more they pay.

However, I don't see any proposals to abolish road tax altogether and put petrol and diesel up by enough to make it a tax-neutral change.

I only drive about 3000 miles a year. I wouldn't mind being taxed more if I consumed more, but being taxed more despite the fact that I consume less is quite offensive.

Look Guys, I have an appointment with the Doc tomorrow to have my BP checked again. The last thing I need right now is to get involved in politics - my head is steaming already. a plague on all their houses

Quote ChrisA "I wouldn't mind being taxed more if I consumed more," -

I object to any taxes until they learn to spend them more fairly like better pensions for real people, single sex wards, lower salaries/pensions/perks for MPs, more sensible policing and justice, no cameras for traffic wardens
Round here they take 4 (yes four) pictures of your car every time they book you

aaargh now see what you have done. I think I will have to cancel that appointment

We already are taxed on our fuel Chris, so your point is already covered. I am sick of seeing gas guzzlers in town on the school run etc. A totally ridiculous use of the car and a waste of a rapidly diminishing resource. Never mind green issues, what about curbing the waste of fuel so there is going to be some around in later years. Tax 'em into oblivion I say. I will not be signing the petition.

Mention was made of real people. I reckon I'm pretty real and I drive a Discovery for towing and have a Land Rover for fun. I can run either on cooking oil if I want to so it seems a bit harsh to tax me into oblivion.

That's the trouble with blabket reactions they apply to everyone fair or not.

I had a Range Rover 3.5 litre but I ran that on LPG which is a waste product of some process or other.

I reckon with one vehicle at 12 years old and the other at 23 years old I'm a darned sight greener than anyone who buys any new car chock full of plastic and batteries.

Mike

Well, very subjective, and not at all ridiculous if the large car is transporting several children. Two or three small cars would take up more space on the roads, and use more fuel, than one large one.

If you really want to reduce total fuel usage, and not just its use by a particular group of people, then it's fairer to tax use of the consumable, rather than ownership of the device that uses it, since the two are not necessarily related.

I happen to agree with taxing fuel use - but only if doing so is effective and fair.

Quite so, and often smack more of the politics of envy, than any practical desire to achieve the stated objectives.

I've always said that we should just axe the road tax system, and put it on the fuel instead. This has many advantages:-

You pay for what you use.
Foreigners pay for what they use.
No way to avoid paying (without stealing the fuel!).
Eliminate the cost of running it (staff, post office, website etc etc.).
Less policing to do.
Less for us to do!
etc etc.

I would much prefer if the tax disc was replaced with an insurance disc and an MOT disc. Would feel a lot better knowing that everyone was insured, had a vehicle fit for the road, rather than knowing that some other tax was paid!

Just seems sensible to me, but of course, that means it will never happen! When you have a system where my V6 galaxy that is averaging 20MPG is taxed less than my mum's 2 litre nissan that does around 35 MPG, something somewhere is very wrong!

Of course you are unless you are in a job that insulates you from the realities of life such as the people who make the laws that milk the wealth creators and live off the proceeds.

Not sure if that comment is aimed at my "blanket" reaction, or at the people who raise taxes on the excuse of being green.

If it was at me, then sorry, I have worked dammed hard for what little I have got and I want to keep some of it. That is not envy, more anger at having my pocket picked at every opportunity.

If it was aimed at our esteemed leaders, then I agree.

Something of a blunderbuss remark really. I get peed off as being cast as a wastrel driving round in gas guzzling motors.

Nothing was taken personally nor meant personally.

I too get totally peed off with our dopey leaders and their oppotunistic reaction to events as they unfold. The amount of tax I part with seems awful but I wouldn't mind do much if I felt I got value for money.

I'm leaving this thread now otherwise my blood pressure will explode as well.

Mike

It was - the politics of envy have dictated much of what's gone on in the last 10 years. But of course, it doesn't escape them that the politics of envy appeals to the envious.

If they were serious about reducing fuel use, they would target the taxes at those that use most of it - which is obviously those that buy most of it.

But they don't. They pay lip service to all this environmental stuff, claiming it's to do with the environment, but actually it isn't. It's to do with penalising those who appear to indulge in extravagant consumption, regardless of whether they actually do or not.

Likewise

I fully agree. I have an old ( 14 years) 4wd MPV, but I use this to tow my caravan. I reckon I have a smaller carbon footprint taking caravan holidays in this country, than people with their electric cars who fly overseas twice a year. But the government don't take this into account.
The alternative for not using this on the shorter journeys is to have two cars...now how would that help?


I also run my car on waste vegetable oil during the summer, ( can't make it work int the winter..yet). As this oil was destined for landfill, I reckon the government should pay me, for (a) saving waste from landfill and (b) not using diesel.

"Taxed into oblivion"? Now what would I do then? I'd end up not being able to tow, so flying away on holiday and increasing my carbon output.

As Mike says. The government's argument is too simplistic. Remove the VED and put the tax onto fuel. But do it fairly. I only do about 5000 miles a year, and most of that in the summer, so I use less fossil fuel than my friends with their "efficient" modern cars, why should I be penalised just because the engine is bigger?

We will all too soon have to stop looking at our cars as an easy and cheap leisure tool, and face up to the reality that oil is a diminishing resource with a growing global demand for it. So people who drive a certain type of vehicle "for fun" will have to accept they are going to be taxed more and more to buy their fun. Looking at peoples driving habits tells me that, at the moment, they will moan but keep on driving in exactly the same way as they have always done. My fuel bills have stayed the same as two years ago because I have thought more about they way I use my car. Moan as much as we like, but this is the reality of 21st century driving, and it will get worse. I say tax the gas guzzlers into oblivion 'cos I want to be able to afford to drive my small engined car in 10 years.
I also take the point about biodeisel (cooking fat etc). These cars should be taxed as a special case.