Macro: Extension tubes/bellows/closeup lens
Posted 01/10/2011 - 08:10
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The principle and the effect of them is same, the difference is in the usage of them.
Using the bellows you can increase the picture distance (between the lens and the sensor) stepless but it is vulnerable and isn't too practical on the site. The tube-set is well usable but you can increase the picture distance in steps.
My tube-set contains 12, 20, 36mm tubes. As I measured it the magnification ratio is 2:1 if I use my Sigma EX 105 DG (1:1) lens and the 68mm tube-set. Using a bellows you can reach higher distances and magnification ratio.
The issue of DOF. By my experience the DOF is about 8-10mm using 68mm tube-set, Sigma EX 105 DG lens with aperture 32 at 1:1 magnification ratio on the lens.
Metering. I have manual tube-set, without electronics and I use my camera in M mode. I also use a Metz MB 15MS-1 ringflash. I can generally use ISO200, aperture 32 and 1/125 shutter speed.
The LED camera light that you linked in is interesting but I think that is unusable. The distance between the subject and the front lens is too small, from bracket you can not light in your subject, your lens will make shadow. I tried to use a Soligor LED ring light but that didn't give enough light. The cheapest (brand new) ringflash is the Metz MB 15MS-1 on the market.
Or you can ask Charlotte here int he PU about the lighting with Pringles tube. She makes it well.
Using the bellows you can increase the picture distance (between the lens and the sensor) stepless but it is vulnerable and isn't too practical on the site. The tube-set is well usable but you can increase the picture distance in steps.
My tube-set contains 12, 20, 36mm tubes. As I measured it the magnification ratio is 2:1 if I use my Sigma EX 105 DG (1:1) lens and the 68mm tube-set. Using a bellows you can reach higher distances and magnification ratio.
The issue of DOF. By my experience the DOF is about 8-10mm using 68mm tube-set, Sigma EX 105 DG lens with aperture 32 at 1:1 magnification ratio on the lens.
Metering. I have manual tube-set, without electronics and I use my camera in M mode. I also use a Metz MB 15MS-1 ringflash. I can generally use ISO200, aperture 32 and 1/125 shutter speed.
The LED camera light that you linked in is interesting but I think that is unusable. The distance between the subject and the front lens is too small, from bracket you can not light in your subject, your lens will make shadow. I tried to use a Soligor LED ring light but that didn't give enough light. The cheapest (brand new) ringflash is the Metz MB 15MS-1 on the market.
Or you can ask Charlotte here int he PU about the lighting with Pringles tube. She makes it well.
Posted 01/10/2011 - 08:37
Link
If the extension tubes support the electrical connections lighting can be done easily & reasonably well with TTL flash. Either off camera (arms reach away typically) or bounced via a suitable placed white A4 card.
With the option to check trial shots, working out manual settings shouldn't be too arduous for simpler tubes or bellows.
Note most bellows loose the aperture control linkage that closes down the aperture as you take the shot. This makes the use of a tripod pretty much compulsory, as there isn't enough light with the aperture closed to frame/focus.
With the option to check trial shots, working out manual settings shouldn't be too arduous for simpler tubes or bellows.
Note most bellows loose the aperture control linkage that closes down the aperture as you take the shot. This makes the use of a tripod pretty much compulsory, as there isn't enough light with the aperture closed to frame/focus.
Mike
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Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.
.[size=11:].Flickr• WPF• Panoramio
.
Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.
.[size=11:].Flickr• WPF• Panoramio
Posted 01/10/2011 - 13:42
Link
To answer the other points:
Magnification for a simple lens system is total extension divided by focal length.
(Total extension is the added extension from tubes/bellows + the focusing extension of the lens itself)
The more extension you add the more magnification you get. It makes no difference to the image if the extension is from tubes, bellows or a (suitable lined/lighttight) pringles can.
I have used a section of steering gaiter but this introduces extra effects as the lens is not parallel/in line with the sensor.
DOF is a function of magnification & aperture. The greater magnification you get the less the DOF. I've not checked but DOF should be the same for both extension & close-up lenses when giving the same magnification.
If you use a tripod & focus slide (some bellows have one built in) you can take multiple shots with the camera at slightly different distances (ie. another part of the subject in focus) which can then be combined using software 'Combine ZM' is free & work well enough for me, 'Serene Stacker' is apparently better when you have large numbers of images. (Note refocusing the camera instead of moving it changes the magnification so doesn't work for this.)
My Digital microscope (not Pentax so I won't post images) really suffers from the shallow DOF needing ~10 shots to get the width of a fly's leg all focused at 100x.
For hand held macro, Extension tubes are generally better (with electrical links if you can afford it) otherwise even £5 Chinese ones work but it's worth paying a bit more for some second hand one that have bayonets at each join, include the aperture linkage and are likely to be more robust.
One other possibility you may not be aware of, is reversing a shorter focal length prime in-front of your K105 (a std 50mm should work well). The reversed lens works as a highly corrected Diopter (Close up lens). Magnification is the ratio of focal lengths and focus has to be done by moving the camera. You can try it out by just holding the lens in place, if it suits your purposes a coupling ring to screw the two together by filter threads can be had for £5-20. This is the technique I use most for macro, though having the camera control the aperture of the forward facing lens ('A' setting required) simplifies matters.
Magnification for a simple lens system is total extension divided by focal length.
(Total extension is the added extension from tubes/bellows + the focusing extension of the lens itself)
The more extension you add the more magnification you get. It makes no difference to the image if the extension is from tubes, bellows or a (suitable lined/lighttight) pringles can.
I have used a section of steering gaiter but this introduces extra effects as the lens is not parallel/in line with the sensor.
DOF is a function of magnification & aperture. The greater magnification you get the less the DOF. I've not checked but DOF should be the same for both extension & close-up lenses when giving the same magnification.
If you use a tripod & focus slide (some bellows have one built in) you can take multiple shots with the camera at slightly different distances (ie. another part of the subject in focus) which can then be combined using software 'Combine ZM' is free & work well enough for me, 'Serene Stacker' is apparently better when you have large numbers of images. (Note refocusing the camera instead of moving it changes the magnification so doesn't work for this.)
My Digital microscope (not Pentax so I won't post images) really suffers from the shallow DOF needing ~10 shots to get the width of a fly's leg all focused at 100x.
For hand held macro, Extension tubes are generally better (with electrical links if you can afford it) otherwise even £5 Chinese ones work but it's worth paying a bit more for some second hand one that have bayonets at each join, include the aperture linkage and are likely to be more robust.
One other possibility you may not be aware of, is reversing a shorter focal length prime in-front of your K105 (a std 50mm should work well). The reversed lens works as a highly corrected Diopter (Close up lens). Magnification is the ratio of focal lengths and focus has to be done by moving the camera. You can try it out by just holding the lens in place, if it suits your purposes a coupling ring to screw the two together by filter threads can be had for £5-20. This is the technique I use most for macro, though having the camera control the aperture of the forward facing lens ('A' setting required) simplifies matters.
Mike
.
Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.
.[size=11:].Flickr• WPF• Panoramio
.
Pentax:K5ii, K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, Sony & micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.
.[size=11:].Flickr• WPF• Panoramio
Posted 01/10/2011 - 15:26
Link
Would this have apperture control?
http://www.castlecameras.co.uk/pentax-set-of-extension-tubes-k-100
http://www.castlecameras.co.uk/pentax-set-of-extension-tubes-k-100
Discovering the joys of photography with Pentax
Posted 01/10/2011 - 15:40
Link
DaveN wrote:
Would this have apperture control?
http://www.castlecameras.co.uk/pentax-set-of-extension-tubes-k-100
You can't tell from the picture.Would this have apperture control?
http://www.castlecameras.co.uk/pentax-set-of-extension-tubes-k-100
Just get a set of sub £10 vivitar tubes or similar from ebay.
Set the lens at f8 and follow the stop down metering process.
Allow use of aperture setting in camera menu, set to M on dial.
Check the tubes have bare metal so they work properly.
Focus, press the green button to set the exposure, refocus and click the shutter.
or just use full manual.
Change the aperture and see what happens to DOF and exposure times.
It is quite likely you will be adjusting the exposure anyway and so there is little gained using auto expsoure over using full manual or stop down metering.
If you want an easier life buy Luftwalk's Cosina 100mm AF Macro lens which does 1:1 currently
https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/cosina-100mm-f3-5-macro-30710
Lurking is shirking.!
Posted 01/10/2011 - 16:22
Link
As I am more likely to only do Macro occasionally, I am thinking, I am better off with the Raynox DCR250
Discovering the joys of photography with Pentax
Posted 01/10/2011 - 16:29
Link
In my opinion the tube-set is a better choice than the Raynox DCR-250. The DCR-250 vignettes on some lenses and makes narrower DOF.
Posted 02/10/2011 - 09:36
Link
I have a set of 3 manual tubes available, as I have acquired a set with contacts.
PM if interested.
PM if interested.
Posted 02/10/2011 - 21:24
Link
It is true about DOF with the Raynox -250 and to a lesser extent with the 150. The results are surprisingly good though and it's certainly practical taking just a few seconds to whack it on or off.
Posted 04/10/2011 - 14:00
Link
I find myself agreeing with the Tubeset option, mainly because i've never used magnifying add-on lenses like Raynox, and never used the reverse lens option, whether directly mounted to the camera via reverse mount ring, or mounted reversed onto another lens via a coupling ring.
I did some tests using a cheap Tokina 24-70 SD zoom, plus a set of original Asahi Pentax 12,20,36 tubes, and got the following results.
Boring ( sorry ) subject matter, i agree, but this is just for the purpose of showing what a tubeset can do. I would also say that despite the Tokina 24-70 being a cheap lens ( £12 ebay ) it has fabulous IQ
Subject matter is a standard 16ft tape rule
All these are resized
100% crops
http://photo-sharing.winsoftmagic.com/1/omvy4l8j35.jpg
http://photo-sharing.winsoftmagic.com/1/61g5d0cnz4.jpg
http://photo-sharing.winsoftmagic.com/1/gueu8v9wo6.jpg
I did some tests using a cheap Tokina 24-70 SD zoom, plus a set of original Asahi Pentax 12,20,36 tubes, and got the following results.
Boring ( sorry ) subject matter, i agree, but this is just for the purpose of showing what a tubeset can do. I would also say that despite the Tokina 24-70 being a cheap lens ( £12 ebay ) it has fabulous IQ
Subject matter is a standard 16ft tape rule
All these are resized
100% crops
http://photo-sharing.winsoftmagic.com/1/omvy4l8j35.jpg
http://photo-sharing.winsoftmagic.com/1/61g5d0cnz4.jpg
http://photo-sharing.winsoftmagic.com/1/gueu8v9wo6.jpg
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237 posts
15 years
In the sky
I understand the use of closeup lenses like the Raynox, makes the dof very small.
I wonder what effect would
A] Bellows ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fotodiox-bellows-Pentax-Digital-Cameras/dp/B003EDWHYC/re...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1317430309&sr=8-2 )
and
B] Extension tubes ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/Extension-Macro-Pentax-Mount-Camera/dp/B003VI2AOW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317430173&sr=8-1 )
have on
1) Magnification
2) D.o.F
3) how to meter for the shot with the attachments.
Which one would you recommend for handheld macro. I will be using a LED video light for addition lighting when necessary ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/64-LED-Light-Olympus-Panasnic-Camcorders/dp/B003LAAESY/r...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1317430065&sr=8-3 )