Kodak boosts digital camera sensitivity
Posted 14/06/2007 - 21:13
Link
Nice idea, but it reduces the real resolution of the sensor further...
Posted 15/06/2007 - 09:33
Link
Quote:
Nice idea, but it reduces the real resolution of the sensor further...
Doesn't that effectively happen with noise refduction algorithms anyway?
Nice idea, but it reduces the real resolution of the sensor further...
Posted 15/06/2007 - 11:07
Link
yes but the point being that you don't apply NR at low ISOs, so you get your full resolution capability back. This pattern will be awesome for security cameras and the like which must work well in low light. Not so sure it will work well for artistic photography in normal light though.
Of course back in the "good old days" you didn't have to worry that a 1600 ISO film had poor resolution in good light, because in good light you loaded a 100 ISO film with uber fine grains.
Of course back in the "good old days" you didn't have to worry that a 1600 ISO film had poor resolution in good light, because in good light you loaded a 100 ISO film with uber fine grains.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 15/06/2007 - 11:09
Link
Aha. My apologies. I thought the same chip could be reconfigured to high and low sensitivity pattern in camera. Now that would be useful.
Posted 15/06/2007 - 18:38
Link
unless I misunderstand how these filters work, the colour filters are physical gels which cover a pixel, and they are basically a part of the sensor. You'd basically need interchangeable sensors to be able to swap them.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 15/06/2007 - 21:35
Link
They are fixed to the surface of the CCD, CMOS or LMOS. Exchangeable sensors would be rather expensive, but it would be possible. Imagine having it as an exchangeable back, but then you'd be in a whole new realm where you could choose a nice Pentax body and load it up with a FujiFilm CCD
Posted 22/06/2007 - 10:31
Link
yes it will reduce the colour resolution of the camera further, but will actually slightly improve the broadband luminance resolution
its actually more similar to the human eye (there are way more rods than cones in the eye)
it will improve B&W shots a lot too.
it seems like an excellent compromise, although a prism and 3CCD system would be better (but presumably too bulky and expensive for a DSLR)
I've always thought that the bayer array was a poor solution because it wastes 2/3 of the light...
its actually more similar to the human eye (there are way more rods than cones in the eye)
it will improve B&W shots a lot too.
it seems like an excellent compromise, although a prism and 3CCD system would be better (but presumably too bulky and expensive for a DSLR)
I've always thought that the bayer array was a poor solution because it wastes 2/3 of the light...
Posted 22/06/2007 - 11:38
Link
I can imagine some CA problems due to the arrangement of photo detectors of different colours. From looking at the diagram it takes 16 photo detectors to generate one pixel, where as currently you only need 4. This means you'd need a 40MP sensor to get the same resolution as a current 10MP sensor. Surely the extra density would completely undo the noise reduction?
Posted 22/06/2007 - 11:40
Link
yes it also looked to me as if a better arrangement of the coloured pixels could be achieved.
Posted 22/06/2007 - 11:45
Link
Quote:
From looking at the diagram it takes 16 photo detectors to generate one pixel, where as currently you only need 4.
I think de-mosaicing is more sophisticated than that, each pixel presumably looks at all of its neighbours to work out what colour it should be.From looking at the diagram it takes 16 photo detectors to generate one pixel, where as currently you only need 4.
however in a standard bayer array every pixel is next to a pixel of each other colour, seems like they should go for that in the high sensitivity array too, maybe by reducing the number of green pixels? why not 50% white and split the RGB equally? I'm sure they have their reasons, although they may not reflect the priorities we might have.
Posted 22/06/2007 - 17:33
Link
Quote:
however in a standard bayer array every pixel is next to a pixel of each other colour, seems like they should go for that in the high sensitivity array too, maybe by reducing the number of green pixels? why not 50% white and split the RGB equally? I'm sure they have their reasons, although they may not reflect the priorities we might have.
There are various de-mosaicing algorithms which look at extended areas beyond the neighbouring pixels. This still produces some errors and if you are processing 16 points to produce one you will get quite a few aliasing problems especially with specific colours. I can imaging some banding at 100% and a few other problems. You really need more pixels for the new array to work well.Tyr wrote:
From looking at the diagram it takes 16 photo detectors to generate one pixel, where as currently you only need 4.
I think de-mosaicing is more sophisticated than that, each pixel presumably looks at all of its neighbours to work out what colour it should be.From looking at the diagram it takes 16 photo detectors to generate one pixel, where as currently you only need 4.
however in a standard bayer array every pixel is next to a pixel of each other colour, seems like they should go for that in the high sensitivity array too, maybe by reducing the number of green pixels? why not 50% white and split the RGB equally? I'm sure they have their reasons, although they may not reflect the priorities we might have.
On a Bayer every vertex meeting point of four photoreceptors is an imaginary pixel which needs information from a RGB, adding a fourth colour or just a 'white' to a standard array would be a good step as well without diminishing resolution and it can be used for noise reduction purposes, just not as effectively.
I think changing the shape of photoreceptors to better stacking hexagons and working on new pattern and algorithms would be better. You get less aliasing (if implemented correctly), more input for each pixel calculation (because you have more vertices) and therefore more 'imaginary' pixels. This part of the way FujiFilm deal with the problem and look at shots from an S5Pro at ISO1600 or even 3200, quite clearly superior.
Add Comment
To leave a comment - Log in to Pentax User or create a new account.


1130 posts
20 years
Netherlands
Pixel patterns
In nearly all of today's digital cameras, each sensor pixel detects either red, green or blue, with those particular colors placed in a quasi-checkerboard arrangement called a Bayer pattern, after the Kodak engineer, Bryce Bayer, who developed it. Every second pixel registers green light, while the remaining pixels capture either red or blue.
With a 12-megapixel Bayer-pattern sensor, 6 million pixels are green, 3 million are red and 3 million are blue. Software reconstructs the full-color image so each pixel has a red, green and blue component through a process called de-mosaicing.
In the high-sensitivity pattern--as yet lacking a formal name--half the pixels capture red, green or blue color information, while the other half are panchromatic pixels that capture only the brightness. So a 12-megapixel sensor would have 6 million panchromatic pixels, 3 million green pixels, 1.5 million red pixels and 1.5 million blue pixels.
Another edit...
Kodak says a sensor with the high-sensitivity pattern has double to quadruple the light sensitivity as the same image sensor using a traditional Bayer pattern. That means images shot in low-light conditions will be less noisy. Both of these images were taken with a sensitivity setting of ISO 1000 and a shutter speed of 1/10 second, but the left image used a traditional Bayer pattern and the right used the new high-sensitivity pattern. The cameras were otherwise identical, Kodak said.
Pentax Lenses: DA16-45|DA50-200|50A 1.7
Tamron Lenses: 28-200
Takumar Lenses: SMC 55 1.8
Sigma Lenses: EX DG 50-500 'Bigma'|EX 50mm Macro
Flashes: Metz 58 AF-1|Samsung SEF-36PZF|Pentax AF-220T