K20D folders

I have looked back but cannot find any reference to the problem I have found - but if it has been discussed before please point me to it.

I have K20D and have left the folder naming convention to be xxx_MMDD where MM is the month and DD the day on which the pictures were taken. xxx is a sequential number from 100 to 999.

I have been using a single card and on that I have several directories:

100_0701, 101_0702, ... through to 149_0906

I then changed the card and my understanding is that the next folder would become 150_0906 (as it was on the same day as 149_0906). But when I went to download it was named 100_0906.

Today I have taken a few more shots on the second card and the directory was named 101_0909 and when I re-inserted the first card, it created 150_0909.

All picture numbers are fine and sequential.

As the folder numbering seems to restart with each card, it is useless to try and save those folders on the PC as they will not be in chronological order but a rather random order.

Is this a bug, a setting I have missed or a software problem?

What you describe is the correct behaviour
Don't forget that the individual files will be numbered sequentially across different cards. However, when you hit 9999 it wraps round to 0000 again - so that can be a right pain!

Personally, I use the K10D's similar folder numbering. I copy the folders directly to my PC then rename the folders to suit my filing method. I have images stored by year (so top level folders of 2007, 2008 etc), then the individual folders are in the form "YYYY-MM-DD DESCRIPTION". Having the camera create directories with DDMM is very useful.

It's only a small amount of work, but yields dividends when trying to find something

Of course, it would perhaps have been better if the folders were in the form "MMDD_NNNN" - then they would have been chronological.... except when shooting over December 31st to Jan 1st!

If that's not enough... there are various file renaming and cataloging tools that can use the EXIF information. You've just got to find a method that works for you

Matt

Matt,

Your response is interesting as the manual definately suggests differently and that it is camera based rather than card specific.

To quote from the manual:
It is a nuisance to have to rename the folders and earlier today I was able to create several folders with the same name which means that the rename has to be done immediately on upload rather than once all folders from cards in use have been uploaded.

To me this looks like a software bug and time to raise it with Pentax directly.

If you do, I think you'll be on a hiding to nothing.

The wording in the K10D manual is much the same (although the default is 'std').

The thing is, it doesn't say anything about how the xxx is generated, so it may be that it's by design - you can't tell from the manual.

The way I achieve dated folders is to use the standard folder name in the camera, and Adobe PhotoDownloader (it came with Elements IIRC) to do the upload.

It just creates dated folders, and you can specify whether you want it to be the shot date or the upload date. Sometimes, like Matt, I suffix the folder name with a description, but mostly I don't bother.

Much simpler than any kind of fiddling with folder names in the camera IMO.

It would be so easy if they managed the folder names on the camera rather than the card - and to allow for the use of a card in more than one body, allowed you to "prefix" the xxx with your own two or three characters.

I have managed to get it registered as a complaint and bug with Pentax - and asked for an explanation from them as I can see a situation where you could accidentally overwrite a set of images.

How do you go about doing that?

I went through sales in Langley and initially said that I was not prepared to call a premium rate 0870 number at 10 to 20 p / minute. They then connected me to Holland where I explained the problem - the technician said that it was how it is designed to work but when I explained possible problems he understood my rationale. He took my details and explained that he would record it as a complaint and a problem and then send it to Japan for comment and that Pentax Europe would respond when they had an answer.

I also asked sales to get the UK product manager to call me - which they have agreed to - early next week.

The call took about 30 minutes and will have cost me about 10p rather than £6 if I had used the premium rate national call number.

There's still a problem with your intended approach...

When you hit 999 folders you wrap round to 000 again

To put it into perspective...
1) the *ist-D had no folders at all. Sequential image files only that wrapped from 9999 to 0000.

2) the K10D added a folder option in the form "NNN_DDMM" Bit of a pain as the DDMM ordering is the "wrong" way round for sorting. But I find this better than the *ist-D

3) the K20D has at least added "MMDD" to the equation.

You still need some human intervention and some "higher" process of organisation. You may not think you do at the moment... but that time will come

It's unlikely you'll ever overwrite images. Maybe copy them into the same folder - but then you only have to use the "sort-by-date" option within Explorer (or within the Mac) to work out which ones you've just copied. Takes all of 10 seconds at the most.

It may be a "problem", but it seems a pretty small one to me


Matt

I don't do "higher process of organisation".

If I had to mess about renaming folders every time I pulled pictures off the camera, I'd go insane.

Surely Adobe PhotoDownloader isn't the only app that creates dated folders as it scoops the files off the card?

If you load the card into a slot on the PC and open Windows Explorer.

You select the folder and drag across, or use copy and paste. Windows - dependent on set up may ask, "do you want to copy the files here" and you click yes. Do that a few times and it is second nature, but when it asks "Do you want to overwrite the directory" and you just react without reading, click yes and suddenly you have over written.

As for resetting at 999 - yes a possible problem but that would mean 2.5 folders every day - say 100 pictures on a 2 GB card, you would average 250 pictures every day during a year which would need 1.6TB of hard disc space so you would already be using probably 4 drives so that problem would not occur.

This does not erase the previous contents!
It actually asks something along the lines of "There is already a directory with this name. Continue?". What the file system does is to just copy the new files in along with the older ones in the directory.

As I said, once that's happened, it's easy enough to unpick the mistake 10 seconds max.

Matt

If only there was an option for the camera to save the folder name as YYYYMMDD everything would be fine. It seems so easy to implement, and so obvious, I wonder why they didn't bother?

Of course I'm hoping someone will tell me they did, but I've looked and couldn't find it. Is this sort of thing ever fixed with software updates?

Robert.

I do agree wholeheartedly with ChrisA, the Photo Downloader integrated in Photoshop Elements 6/Organizer is a very useful tool.

Btw, I just connect my camera to the PC using the USB cable, switch on the camera, and there I have the Photo downloader. I can now load to any directory of my choice or make the downloader create directories at my discretion.

I don't see any point in removing the memory card and using a separate card reader for downloading. The USB 2.0 connection is fast enough, in fact faster than my card reader.

It also comes with Elements 5, which is how I got it.

I only use it for doing the download, though - for previewing I use Picasa. It imports the new folders very quickly - pretty much in real time if you've got it open - and it's quicker to scroll down the list of folders and view the thumbnails than it is to read the folder names.

Picasa 3, which is out now in beta, also lets you view the EXIF for PEF files (well, K10D ones, I don't know about K20D ones), which it didn't before.

Well worth upgrading, if you like Picasa. Evolution, not revolution, but some good steps forward nonetheless.