K100D Super Colour Saturation

Hi there
I have a K100D Super that was a present at Christmas 2007. The colours are too "in your face". They are way too bright and saturated. I spend hours trying to tone them down to the cost of paper and temper. I've read the topic by Paul JD from Worcester (co-incidentallywhere I was born!) back in January 2008 but the replies don't really address the issues. I have a camera that takes pictures that display perfectly on the monitor but don't print on semi-professional inkjet printers e.g. Canon Ix4000. I have the latest drivers etc... I have an ancient Sony Cybershot that does far better. I can take the files to a supermarket mall and get reasonable prints but that was not what I expected nor want. My wife even suggested that I return to "silver" photography and she paid for the K100. I've dusted off the Mamiya 645 just in case...

Is it as much of the heap of scrap that I suspect...?

I am really not wanting to mess about. I want a camera that will take good pictures using my range of Pentax lenses and that I can print out using the kit I have without having to mess about too much.

Any suggestions?

HiFi

please give detials about your camera settings, in the "menu" and "Custom" settings. (press menu button on back of camera, and list, in order EVERYTHING from top to bottom, then goto the "C" (custom) menu and tell us how that is set up.

If your monitor is fine, and pictures from other people's good cameras don't look too pale, then it sounds more of a problem with the printer than the camera.

Anyway, you could turn the Saturation down on the camera, and use Natural tone instead of Bright.

No Pentax digital SLR is a heap of scrap - unless it's broken!

This statement followed a mention of your Cybershot, but I think it refers to photos from your Pentax. If so, then it would suggest that the camera is fine, but there's something wrong as far as your home printer is concerned. If that's producing bad prints, whilst the supermarket is doing fine, then that would point to the problem.

Dan

Getting prints to match what is on the screen is a complicated topic that is discussed at great lenth in many photo fora on the internet.

As well as the excellent suggestions outlined above, could you please describe what settings you are using in the printer driver, what printer profile you are using, what printer inks and papers are being used on your home printer, what applications you are using to view your pictures on the screen, do you know if those viewing applications are colour managed and if so what colour space they are set to, is the monitor calibrated, are you shooting jpeg and if so, is the camera set to sRGB or AdobeRGB, if you shoot in raw, what colour space is the raw convertor set to output in?

I hope you can see there's a lot more to it than just blaming the camera. Matching print to screen is a complex process that will take some effort to get right, but don't worry, once you've got it right, it won't really need touching again.

Duncan

Don
In "Custom" Setting is a "tick" and everything else is a 1 except "Using Aperture ring" which is a two". In Rec Mode The Image Tone is on Bright (not changeable) except for "P" thro "B" when it is on Normal. Saturation is midway on all settings that I can't change it on and on minimum on those that I can (i.e. "P" thro "B". Sharpness and Contrast also on midway.

Iceblinker
I have only had other peoples pictures on this system once and they had a magenta hue both on the monitor and the prints - but they were taken on a mobile phone! I have two printers - both Canon and they produce similar results. The result from the Cybershot are far and away more realistic than the Pentax. Unless I am reading the camera and the book incorrectly I can not turn the image tone down to Natural unless I am on "P" Thro "B" - i.e. not on Auto nor on any of the pre-selected Scenes. (I do not get the green up and down arrows.)

Daniel Bridge
I must check that out again. I have only taken five pictures to the Supermarket and none that were horrendously bright. The shadows (winter) were very dark on the originals and the supermarket balanced the shades very well. I will check that out again and let you know. We are in the wilds here and so it may be a week or so until I get to a large enough Supermarket. I have tried a number of picture managing software systems and they all produce the same overly bright pictures. See below...

(Pause for a large "Scotch"

Yelvertoft
Hi - thanks for your reply. I used to take "silver" pictures by the 1000 in my job. I am no beginner but I do not expect to have to go to the sort of depth with a "High Street available" digital camera that these replies are suggesting in order to get presentable pictures. I can get those with the Cybershot. What I am concerned with is do I have a working camera or does it have to go back! If they have similar problems, I cannot really expect those who know next-to-nothing about photography to be able to use this camera to good effect. Why are not the defaults sufficient unto the day!
I will now try and answer your questions:
Printer driver settings: Media Type: Plain paper; print quality: Custom (Set to as finest as it will go ( "2" on the ix4000 and "1" on The S900); Colour Intensity "Auto" on both.(These are what most paper manufacturers suggest). The inks are all Canon original tanks. Mind you I get no difference if I use "Jet Up" refills. Paper: You name it. I've got a stack of it. One night I ran a proof picture straight from the camera without any "fiddling" on a sheet of every type of paper in the office. Result: Not a jot of difference on the above settings between the papers. The applications used include: Photo Studio 5.5; Canon Easy Print + Canon Easy Photo print; the bundled Pentax browser and Lab software; Kodak Easy Share; Paint Shop Pro 7; Windows MS Office Picture Manager etc etc... I have checked some of the utilities and they all refer to the Vista colour management menu. That lists the display and all of the printers with what I take to be the correct profiles (by the page load).
I am using JPEG set to AdobeRGB as the Manual suggests that the output is lighter.

I have blamed everything from the camera to the computer to the printers to the papers. Eventually I will go bankrupt as a result of replacing cartridges etc. etc.

"Silver" processing here in France is hugely expensive compared to the UK but unless I can resolve this picture taking situation I will be returning to the older technology- via the Cybershot!

Thanks for your help so far but I'm glad I have more than an inkling of what you are talking about or otherwise I would have given up and placed a shiny new camera on the shelf to look good...

I'm still trying to get the dust off the 645...

HiFi.

(pause for a second large Scotch...)

in rec mode:
set your image tone to normal, not bright.
set saturation back one notch.
set sharpness up 2 notchs.
set file format to jpeg (use highest quality settings...) (this will work on green and all other settings)

in custom menu :
scroll down to color space, and set it to srgb.

now it's down to your computer monitor.....
monitors need to be calibrated for acuurate readings...
so tell us how your monitor is set up if the camera adjustments don't get you sorted...

ps the Pentax is a Photographers camera.....
why not take some time to learn.... very rewarding pass-time! goes great with scotch...just ask the guys they'll tell ya!

HiFi,

You're right that Saturation and Tone are not adjustable when using the Green and Scene modes. All I can suggest is that you try and sort out the problem via the computer and/or printer, and/or have a go with the other modes on the camera.

P mode is actaully very similar to the fully auto Green mode, and the Scene modes (Portrait, Landscape, etc) can be reproduced with controls such as Av when you understand the basics of photography.

Your camera is only a heap of scrap if you throw it away!

I did not realize these functions of the k100d were different from the k10, or ds2. (seems like one of those things that SHOULD be consistant from one model to the next)
sorry if I was wrong.

if you shoot in srgb, your display should be profiled for srgb, and so you should set your printer to srgb. (or all set to adobe 9.

I have checked the online manual for the K100D now.

It only says the Tone and Saturation settings don't work in the "Picture" and "SCN" modes. I guess they mean AutoPicture (green).

I would suggest to use the P mode or other more "manual" modes.
I use my DS mostly in Av.

Thanks again Gentlemen, I'm working on it...
Don
Re: Yours of 19th June - Do you suggest any change to the Saturation? I presently have it down one notch. Otherwise I am trying your suggestions except for the color space which as I mentioned, I have it set to AdobeRGB as the Manual suggests that this gives lighter pictures. I accept the bit (later) about the monitor and printer settings and I find they make no mention of Adobe and so I guess that I need to set the color space as sRGB as I can then set the display and pprinters accordingly the same. I wil try this out and let you know.

Iceblinker
I am now trying the P Mode with the settings suggestedby Don above and am getting better results. I will ignore your comment about understanding the basics of photography. I have been taking pictures on Rollies, Mamiyas, Nikons and Pentax since I was 10 and I'm now just a tad short of 60. I guess I undertsand the basics.

Don (again)
As above re the sRGB settings. I'll give them a go...

golfdiesel
As above I'm now using the P mode. If I'm using non- FA lenses i.e. ancient M lenses then I use "manual" settings of course.

Thanks everyone

But what I still don't understand is why the manufacturer doesn't have "natural" picture settings as default and not leave it to the photographer to find out the best way through trial and error or this forum.

I will try and post some before and after pictures on a spare page of a family website and let you know the URL.


HiFi