Image library archive format

I'm interested in what format people store their images for archive. When the poll has been running a week, I'll explain why.

I just use PEF as I don't like changing the original files. If it becomes obsolete I'll convert them all to something usable. I try to get all my best shots printed anyway so I'm not going to be too bothered what happens to a lot of them in years to come.

The original files are stored unchanged on the hard drive and on a back up CD.

Any manipulated files are saved in TIFF format.

Manipulated files are saved as JPEG which I only use for printing, all my editing is either in TIFF or PSD.

Then I have my Lightoom alterations library which is saved and backed up separately.

I archive all original PEF files.

I convert the ones I like to TIFF and archive the edited version.

The files I edit for print or web are archived as JPEG.

So there you go: PEF, TIFF, and JPEG.

And that's my final answer.

I ticked JPG.

I know.. progressive loss of quality on every save, I ought to be shooting RAW anyway... etc, etc..

I do keep the originals, though, unchanged, whether PEF or JPG. One of these days I'll take something good enough to warrant the TIFF.

As soon as you save a file in JPEG you are compressing it and introducing JPEG artifacts.

I suggest that as soon as the original JPEG has been opened and changed in any way it should be saved thereon in a lossless format. This could be psd if the work is "in progress" or preferably TIFF which is universally readable.

Personally I think it is somewhat ironic to, say, shoot in RAW and then save as JPEG.

The way we have taught our members at ADAPS is always to save in a lossless format, and this is pretty universal as recommendations go. The exception, of course, is when we Save for Web, which has to be JPEG.

I take your points, John. It must depend on what you're planning to do with it, though.

If you take the original JPEG out of the camera, edit it, and save it for the web, there's no advantage that I can see in saving as TIFF - except to freeze the edits before the final resize and sharpen so that you can do other things with it.

When I start getting more results good enough to print at a decent size I'll start going to a lossless format for the intermediate step. But mostly when I'm done with the first pass, if I think it's good enough I usually want to go back to the original to do the editing better.

Which reminds me... does anyone know offhand if there's an easy way in Elements 5 or CS3 that lets you save the undo history with the PSD?

It would be a massive benefit to be able to save a work in progress, then be able to open it again and go backwards as well as forwards.

My other half is quite disappointed that she has not been shooting RAW all along as there are some shots which she'd like to manipulate but really can't. Especially with the dynamic range of the S20Pro's RAW capture, she took some pictures yesterday where the sky was completely white on screen. Reducing the exposure, there were no details lost and even the colour of the sky was perfect in one shot. She needs to make a copy of it and then blend it back with the original. With JPEG that range doesn't exist and the flexibility is lost.

Correct, if that is what you intend you Save for Web, which is usually automatically a JPEG and then close the image, when it says "Do you want to save changes?" you say No, thus preserving the original JPEG as out of camera.

If on the other hand I am producing a full size image, then I create it to A3 and save as TIFF. A Web version can be made from this whenever required.

Yep, only use JPEG for web display or sending down the pipe to get it printed. If I was going to print over A3 then I'd send them a disk with TIFFs.

I'm on DNG. I use a DS, and the converted DNGs are almost half the size of it's PEFs.

I import all files from the card directly into the DNG converter and import them into Apple's Aperture. Aperture takes care of my files and stores them (along with their development settings) in it's Library. I have an external Firewire harddrive wich I use as an Aperture Vault (Aperture backs up all data to it automatically).

I'm printing from exported JPEGs, although I'll be trying TIFF for printing al my local photo store (and try to see improvements).

Sure, sorry if it wasn't obvious that's what I meant - the point I'm making is that the vast majority of my pictures don't warrant saving in a lossless format. I keep the original unsullied JPEGs.

Picasa makes all this incredibly easy - you can do a bunch of quick edits, and it automatically saves the originals in a subfolder of wherever they are, when you save the edits.

That way I can do a bunch of very quick edits just to confirm whether or not it's worth spending a bit more time on a few of them, and I've still got the originals. It has a very useful "locate original on disk" function that pulls up Windows Explorer with the folder already open and file highlighted. A right click and an "Open with.." leads to all the grown-up stuff if I want it.

I save all my original images on my computer HD in their original captured format. Most are PEF but some are JPEG. I delete the junk and then back-up all to DVD as “originals”. In the near future I am going to add an external HD for backups as well. I then import the originals to Lightroom and catalogue and manipulate them there. Once in a while I do export from LR to Photoshop 6 for pixel manipulation and then I would do a SaveAs with a unique name and/or file format depending on the goal and thus leaving the original intact. I never over-write an original file.

This could be getting a off topic (but I am not sure because of mysteriousness of the poll) but in response to concerns expressed above about file degradation with JPEG, I feel Lightroom is the answer for that. Lightroom is not a pixel based editor so it only keeps a database of the location of the original file and changes you make to the image parameters in a small sidecar file. The original file always remains intact. Even copies of the image, or snapshots of the editing process, can be taken at any point and only the information of changes from the original are saved in the sidecar file. I think Aperture works this way too but correct me if I am wrong.

Here is a good exchange of information about how Lightroom works if you are interested.

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17716 FYI one of the posters, Jeff Schewe, is one of the original developers of Lightroom.

Well ???????