I think Pentax lost a bet...

Opethian
Posted 11/08/2013 - 12:15 Link
I personally think, that Pentax lost a bet to Canon, Nikon, and all the other brands many moons ago. This is my humorous take on the situation we "K-mounters" are in. This is just my thoughts playing with me, so please don't take it seriously.

But I really do think, Pentax lost a bet.

Hence, they've had to make their lenses "different" (some may argue, crippled is the word) to the nearest competition. Of course this is my opinion.

But what do I mean?

Well, what are the alternatives to the following in Pentax mount (all lenses still in production):

* Canon has a 28mm 1.8 / Nikon has a 28mm 2.8 / Pentax has ?
* Canon has a 35mm 2.0 / Nikon has a 35mm 1.8 / Pentax has the 35 2.4
* Both Canon & Nikon have 50mm 1.8's for less than £80. Pentax has a 50mm 1.8 for over £200.
* Both Canon & Nikon have 85mm 1.8's for less than £300. Pentax has the 70mm Ltd. 2.4 which is a bit more expensive.

Imagine. Why would they make it different. And NOT different in a good way. But different, in a purposely handicapped way. I mean... why?

And you may think this is a negative post. But it isn't.

Considering all that, we still like Pentax as a brand, and we still love the photos that we take with it. Regardless of losing the bet, Pentax is still in the game! LOL

...and I hope this thread doesn't get deleted
Algernon
Posted 11/08/2013 - 12:46 - Helpful Comment Link
It was the same with CD Writers. Manufacturers leapfrogged one
another until they went so fast the CD's shattered
Nero brought out a program to slow them down again

You would be better getting to know your Pentax equipment than
wasting your time looking at what other manufactures make

For example you have an A50 f/1.7 ....
What advantage does using f/1.7 give you over using it at f/2?
Which is better..... Can you see any difference in the viewfinder?

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 11/08/2013 - 12:47
Opethian
Posted 11/08/2013 - 12:59 Link
That's exactly my point. It's made me see beyond the equipment. The A50 1.7 is fantastic and I wouldn't let it go. Well done to the previous owner for keeping it in such good shape as well (bought from these forums)!

Carl Zeiss created the Super Quatsch Gigantar although it's unusable. Created to prove a point, that it's not all about speed, or equipment.

Then again, this just makes one wonder "what if". I think my initial post is a valid query. Pentax risked being different, and I think it paid off. Not as well as they would have hoped, but they did create / fill in a particular niche in the photographers' world.

At the very least, there may be other people asking the same question. I'm hoping those thinking of "jumping ship" reconsider after they've read this thread.
Edited by Opethian: 11/08/2013 - 13:02
K10D
Posted 11/08/2013 - 13:08 Link
Algernon wrote:
You would be better getting to know your Pentax equipment than wasting your time looking at what other manufactures make
That's told him Algi
Too far from a shore.
Algernon
Posted 11/08/2013 - 13:19 Link
Opethian wrote:
Carl Zeiss created the Super Quatsch Gigantar although it's unusable. Created to prove a point, that it's not all about speed, or equipment.
Ah! My father used to have a Contarex Bullseye!.......
Always buy German he said That's why I bought Pentax
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
McGregNi
Posted 11/08/2013 - 15:19 - Helpful Comment Link
Opethian wrote:
.... Then again, this just makes one wonder "what if". I think my initial post is a valid query. Pentax risked being different, and I think it paid off. Not as well as they would have hoped, but they did create / fill in a particular niche in the photographers' world.
Can it really be true that lenses were created with exact focal lengths and maximum apertures just to be different from the competition? What would be the point in practice ? If you can't fit it on to your camera it remains academic - it doesn't reduce the 'system change dilemma' for anyone does it, and is not filling anyone's 'niche'.

In practice these maximum aperture differences are insignificant mostly - with digital now and flexible ISO control any required shutter speed can be obtained that way, and DOF differences would be minimal surely.

And single digit focal length differences (apart from small perspective differences) can be rendered equal with a few steps back or forwards.

There's the important aspects of build, feel and handling in this equipment as well - for usability these could be more valuable than the technical dimensions, and I think Pentax offers a lot in this respect.
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johnha
Posted 11/08/2013 - 15:42 Link
Opethian wrote:

* Both Canon & Nikon have 85mm 1.8's for less than £300. Pentax has the 70mm Ltd. 2.4 which is a bit more expensive.
Still doesn't stop the Canon shooters from snapping up SMC-Takumar 85mm f/1.8s for similar prices - for a 40+ year old, all manual lens and then drooling about them...
doingthebobs
Posted 11/08/2013 - 16:22 Link
I'm confused. Where does the bet come in?
Bob
Algernon
Posted 11/08/2013 - 16:47 - Helpful Comment Link
I don't know how Canon lenses are made now days, but in their
heyday of cameras such as the AE-1 when they changed the
breech mount, they were held on with just 3 screws unlike
the 5 used by Pentax and the lens was GLUED together making
it impossible to service Gluing is of course cheap

See the last post in this thread...
http://www.kyphoto.com/classics/forum/messages/2/25413.html#POST53644

Is it any wonder that Canon users are buying Takumars

-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Edited by Algernon: 11/08/2013 - 16:51
johnriley
Posted 11/08/2013 - 17:17 - Helpful Comment Link
No, of course the logic didn't run like that, OP.

Would there really be any joy in having a situation where Pentax made, for example, a cheap 50mm lens? I mention this because quite often posters ignore that the price of the Pentax FA 50mm is pretty close, sometimes higher sometimes lower, than the better Nikon and Canons that it competes with.

As for the 50mm f/1.8 DA lens, it happens to be one of the best around if any marque.

The 70mm f/2.4 by the way is also a fantastic lens, a very nice replacement for the 100mm f/2.8 M lens I used to enjoy using on film.
Best regards, John
Opethian
Posted 11/08/2013 - 17:52 Link
Many thanks for entertaining my curiosity everyone.

It may look as if I am critical of Pentax here. I'd prefer to be called inquisitive. I love Pentax as a brand, and am trying to think the reasoning as to how they make their moves compared to the rest of the market.

I can even go and say that the reason I chose Pentax was because of this very point, that Pentax doesn't necessarily follow what is considered to be "popular".

I think many of you can remember when they released the K10D right?
Smeggypants
Posted 11/08/2013 - 20:02 Link
Algernon wrote:
It was the same with CD Writers. Manufacturers leapfrogged one
another until they went so fast the CD's shattered
Nero brought out a program to slow them down again

You would be better getting to know your Pentax equipment than
wasting your time looking at what other manufactures make

For example you have an A50 f/1.7 ....
What advantage does using f/1.7 give you over using it at f/2?
Which is better..... Can you see any difference in the viewfinder?

--
Any experienced photographer knows that at wide apertures what you see in the viewfinder and waht you see in the takwen picture can be two different things.

standard viewfinders can't resolve DOFs shallower than about f/2.0

There's a significant difference between what the viewfinder shows to a pic taken with a 50/1.2 @1.2
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Algernon
Posted 11/08/2013 - 20:33 Link
It's higher than that.... at least f/2.4.

I'd have to check where the limit is for exposure,
either f/2 or f/1.8 beyond which the aperture makes
no difference.

I still haven't got round to cutting down the Canon Ee-S
screen I bought for my K-5..... must do it shortly

-
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
Pentaxophile
Posted 11/08/2013 - 22:15 Link
Algernon wrote:
I'd have to check where the limit is for exposure,either f/2 or f/1.8 beyond which the aperture makes
no difference.
You mean on the viewfinder view? Obviously it makes a difference to the DOF in the resulting image... albeit very slight from f1.7 to f2...
johnriley
Posted 11/08/2013 - 23:01 Link
Indeed, the problem is judging any difference on a tiny focusing screen. I've always found DOF preview to be totally useless on 35mm cameras, so it won't be any better on APS-C.
Best regards, John

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