Got to be asked....K5 ii or iis...
- Topic Locked - You will not be able to post to this topic. Descending into arguments
Posted 04/03/2014 - 17:39
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I am starting to think that the 's' caters for the 'pixel peeper' , The real world is far different!
Mac
Mac
McGregNi wrote:
And moire does not only occur on textiles - there are plenty of examples on all kinds of multi-patterned surfaces - bird feathers, corragated iron, fencing etc. I am not trying to over-egg this - I agree it is limited and a small risk, but I feel it is misleading to tell others not to ever let it concern you, it'll never happen. No-one can be sure of that. And the options for controlling and removing it are far from established.
Even K3 users can't tell us an exact and reliable method of determining (in the field) whether the simulator is required on or not.
DanielH wrote:
Well I have fairly recently acquired a K-5ii. I really wanted to go for the s but as I shoot weddings for money I couldnt risk it and as mentioned above the price difference. I don't own any "professional" editing software and having to remove moire after the fact would likely be a major headache. If weddings were not the case I think I would have stumped up the extra
That's probably the most sensible and balanced comment on a 'moire' decision I've read here. And regarding 'sharpness & resolution' matters - those who claim things like 'you can see the difference' are not telling the whole story - it depends on the proccesses applied to any images being compared, the viewing software and default algorithims, and I can assure you the variables are considerable. Well I have fairly recently acquired a K-5ii. I really wanted to go for the s but as I shoot weddings for money I couldnt risk it and as mentioned above the price difference. I don't own any "professional" editing software and having to remove moire after the fact would likely be a major headache. If weddings were not the case I think I would have stumped up the extra
And moire does not only occur on textiles - there are plenty of examples on all kinds of multi-patterned surfaces - bird feathers, corragated iron, fencing etc. I am not trying to over-egg this - I agree it is limited and a small risk, but I feel it is misleading to tell others not to ever let it concern you, it'll never happen. No-one can be sure of that. And the options for controlling and removing it are far from established.
Even K3 users can't tell us an exact and reliable method of determining (in the field) whether the simulator is required on or not.
Posted 04/03/2014 - 17:50
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Dodge69 wrote:
...... If you don't shoot super high ISO that often or do portraiture for a living then the K5IIs is a severely good and professional standard machine.
As someone who has a K5iis and wants to shoot portraits for a living I'm interested in your comment. Should I be worried...... If you don't shoot super high ISO that often or do portraiture for a living then the K5IIs is a severely good and professional standard machine.
DanielH wrote:
..........but as I shoot weddings for money ............. I dont own any "professional" editing software ..........
Daniel I am amazed by these 2 comments. I can only assume that you have some "unprofessional" editing software Seriously though I can't understand how you can manage to shoot weddings professionally without some PP
..........but as I shoot weddings for money ............. I dont own any "professional" editing software ..........
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CaptureLight Ltd
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"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"
CaptureLight Ltd
flickr
"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"
Posted 04/03/2014 - 17:54
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Hi all
I found the following helpful (bar John Riley's excellent reviews!)
www.boxedlight.com/K5IIS/
Cheers
Mac
I found the following helpful (bar John Riley's excellent reviews!)
www.boxedlight.com/K5IIS/
Cheers
Mac
Posted 04/03/2014 - 17:55 - Helpful Comment
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Simonmac wrote:
........ so the normal ii seems the best option, and I save about £80 on current prices........
........ so the normal ii seems the best option, and I save about £80 on current prices........
Simonmac wrote:
I think I have an easy solution. I am getting the iis and keeping my trust Kr just in case moire paranoia creeps in!........
I think I have an easy solution. I am getting the iis and keeping my trust Kr just in case moire paranoia creeps in!........
Simonmac wrote:
I am starting to think that the 's' caters for the 'pixel peeper' , The real world is far different!.....
I warned you
I am starting to think that the 's' caters for the 'pixel peeper' , The real world is far different!.....
---------------------------------------------------------------------
CaptureLight Ltd
flickr
"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"
CaptureLight Ltd
flickr
"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"
Posted 04/03/2014 - 17:58
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You did!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mac
Mac
RalphHardwick wrote:
Simonmac wrote:
........ so the normal ii seems the best option, and I save about £80 on current prices........
........ so the normal ii seems the best option, and I save about £80 on current prices........
Simonmac wrote:
I think I have an easy solution. I am getting the iis and keeping my trust Kr just in case moire paranoia creeps in!........
I think I have an easy solution. I am getting the iis and keeping my trust Kr just in case moire paranoia creeps in!........
Simonmac wrote:
I am starting to think that the 's' caters for the 'pixel peeper' , The real world is far different!.....
I warned you I am starting to think that the 's' caters for the 'pixel peeper' , The real world is far different!.....
Posted 04/03/2014 - 18:03
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OK
Another tack
If I only print to A4, A3 occasionally, using Corel and sometimes PDCU, am I likely to see any difference AND does printing add to the risk of moire---- most reviews only refer to on screen views.
Sorry!
Cheers
Mac
Another tack
If I only print to A4, A3 occasionally, using Corel and sometimes PDCU, am I likely to see any difference AND does printing add to the risk of moire---- most reviews only refer to on screen views.
Sorry!
Cheers
Mac
Posted 04/03/2014 - 19:49
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Here's a section of the conclusions section of my testing ... as you can see I consider the question to be not so much about print sizes (although any image degradations caused by sharpening work will be amplified the bigger you print) but rather about the style and selective application of detailing and sharpening work you do ....
2) Basic RAW conversion and Capture Sharpening adjustment in PDCU
With this process, all software settings were neutralised. However, by default, the K5II image very nearly equalised the 's' shot. This is apparently due to the camera profiles being interperted by PDCU and additional default sharpening being applied when the file was opened. A +1 user adjustment to the K5II shot made them almost identical.
2) Conclusion - for me this is significant. I do my RAW conversion in PDCU, I save out with a good bit of capture sharpening (+2 or +3 for most shots). I then carry on the workflow in other software, including significant detail enhancements for highly intricate scenes. For shots that do not require this extra work, (eg shots of the family) then the Capture Sharpening is as much as I often need.
So, if you do not need to (or don't like to) apply significant amounts of detail, fine micro-contrast and other sharpening-type enhancements to your images, you will not see significant benefit with the 's' model
- choose AA Filter model
3) Additional Definition & Detailing Enhancements - to larger output sizes
If following RAW conversion, including Capture Sharpening, you need to carry out further sharpening, definition or other type of clarity enhancements in PP, and these enhancements are applied to a wide range of textural surfaces and differing ranges of pixel radius, then there comes a point when the K5II image will let you down before the 's' version, particularly on smoother textures and larger areas of single tone. Also deep shadow areas will lose their depth more quickly.
3) Conclusion - If your shots demand these more intense processes, and large prints risk revealing these defects
- choose non AA filter ('s') model
Sorry, I don't know if printing changes the risk of or appearance of moire. If it can be seen on screen then I guessm it will be seen in print, I guess!
Read more at: http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/53-pentax-dslr-camera-articles/230206-k5ii-vs...#ixzz2v1cXgLO0
2) Basic RAW conversion and Capture Sharpening adjustment in PDCU
With this process, all software settings were neutralised. However, by default, the K5II image very nearly equalised the 's' shot. This is apparently due to the camera profiles being interperted by PDCU and additional default sharpening being applied when the file was opened. A +1 user adjustment to the K5II shot made them almost identical.
2) Conclusion - for me this is significant. I do my RAW conversion in PDCU, I save out with a good bit of capture sharpening (+2 or +3 for most shots). I then carry on the workflow in other software, including significant detail enhancements for highly intricate scenes. For shots that do not require this extra work, (eg shots of the family) then the Capture Sharpening is as much as I often need.
So, if you do not need to (or don't like to) apply significant amounts of detail, fine micro-contrast and other sharpening-type enhancements to your images, you will not see significant benefit with the 's' model
- choose AA Filter model
3) Additional Definition & Detailing Enhancements - to larger output sizes
If following RAW conversion, including Capture Sharpening, you need to carry out further sharpening, definition or other type of clarity enhancements in PP, and these enhancements are applied to a wide range of textural surfaces and differing ranges of pixel radius, then there comes a point when the K5II image will let you down before the 's' version, particularly on smoother textures and larger areas of single tone. Also deep shadow areas will lose their depth more quickly.
3) Conclusion - If your shots demand these more intense processes, and large prints risk revealing these defects
- choose non AA filter ('s') model
Sorry, I don't know if printing changes the risk of or appearance of moire. If it can be seen on screen then I guessm it will be seen in print, I guess!
Read more at: http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/53-pentax-dslr-camera-articles/230206-k5ii-vs...#ixzz2v1cXgLO0
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 04/03/2014 - 20:02
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McGregNi wrote:
And moire does not only occur on textiles - there are plenty of examples on all kinds of multi-patterned surfaces - bird feathers, corragated iron, fencing etc.
Real world shooting with the 5iis ....And moire does not only occur on textiles - there are plenty of examples on all kinds of multi-patterned surfaces - bird feathers, corragated iron, fencing etc.
Moire? What moire? Now if I'm not mistaken these are bird feathers and no moire! I have had my 5iis for over a year now and witnessed it once!
Moire occurs so rarely it is not worth bothering about.
It sometimes looks like you have it, but when you zoom into the picture it's gone.
Get the 5iis.
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"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans" (John Lennon)
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Posted 04/03/2014 - 20:15
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DanielH wrote:
..........but as I shoot weddings for money ............. I dont own any "professional" editing software ..........
Daniel I am amazed by these 2 comments. I can only assume that you have some "unprofessional" editing software Seriously though I can't understand how you can manage to shoot weddings professionally without some PP[/quote]Whoops Ralph reading between the lines and falling off the page! I DO have editing software but its freeware
..........but as I shoot weddings for money ............. I dont own any "professional" editing software ..........
Posted 04/03/2014 - 20:34
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SteveEveritt wrote:
... Moire? What moire? Now if I'm not mistaken these are bird feathers and no moire! I have had my 5iis for over a year now and witnessed it once!
Moire occurs so rarely it is not worth bothering about.
It sometimes looks like you have it, but when you zoom into the picture it's gone.
Get the 5iis.
As I've said earlier, I'm not trying to exaggerate the issue, and I'm not trying to ressurect previous discussions on it - my main interest has always been about the value of the aa filter or not and its effect through the sharpening processing chain.... Moire? What moire? Now if I'm not mistaken these are bird feathers and no moire! I have had my 5iis for over a year now and witnessed it once!
Moire occurs so rarely it is not worth bothering about.
It sometimes looks like you have it, but when you zoom into the picture it's gone.
Get the 5iis.
Its great that many users of the cameras have not had problems, but that doesn't invalidate the points I've made about it being a question for others to consider, relating to their own personal requirements and subject matter. The fact that there are shots of birds without moire does not of itself mean no-one will end up with any shots of birds with moire.
What needs more exploring is the exact combination of conditions that make it actually likely. Knowing more about that would help, both for people choosing a camera with or without filter, or for more informed operation of the K3.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Posted 04/03/2014 - 21:15
Link
McGregNi wrote:
.......That's probably the most sensible and balanced comment on a 'moire' decision I've read here.....
I've just reread this thread and there have been 6 posts by people who either own or have used the K5iis and have seen no moire. Personally I would suggest that that is sensible and balanced........That's probably the most sensible and balanced comment on a 'moire' decision I've read here.....
McGregNi wrote:
.......As I've said earlier, I'm not trying to exaggerate the issue......
You're not suceeding
.......As I've said earlier, I'm not trying to exaggerate the issue......
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CaptureLight Ltd
flickr
"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"
CaptureLight Ltd
flickr
"I carry a camera to capture memories and the occasional photograph worthy of sharing"
Posted 04/03/2014 - 21:17
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It strikes me all this hi-brow talk, in excruciating detail about post processing techniques is lost on the vast majority (including the OP) who for the most part, just want a super image straight out of the camera.
I can take an image to the nth degree in any number of high-end apps, but if it comes out of the camera looking fab, I leave it well alone.
I love my K5(two of them) but the s is just better. IN THE REAL WORLD.
I can take an image to the nth degree in any number of high-end apps, but if it comes out of the camera looking fab, I leave it well alone.
I love my K5(two of them) but the s is just better. IN THE REAL WORLD.
Posted 04/03/2014 - 21:19
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Righto Mr Darkmunk and what if i use it on a pinstripe suit at a wedding and actually get some Moire is that better?? Granted I have a specific application in mind but in nearly everything its horses for courses!
Oh and Mac maybe you'd be better off just tossing a coin
Oh and Mac maybe you'd be better off just tossing a coin
Posted 04/03/2014 - 21:19
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I have owned my K-5iis for a year now and used for all manner of shots, not sure how many, but it must be around the 6,000 mark. Never seen moire once, this includes taking approx. 2,000 shots at weddings, where the K-5iis performed brilliantly, not only in the sharpness department but also in terms of its focussing accuracy.
I agree with Sean (Dodge69) that the K-5iis will become almost legendary and will certainly be thought of as a classic. My vote would go this way without any doubt.
Regards
David
I agree with Sean (Dodge69) that the K-5iis will become almost legendary and will certainly be thought of as a classic. My vote would go this way without any doubt.
Regards
David
5986 posts
14 years
Surrey,
England
Well I have fairly recently acquired a K-5ii. I really wanted to go for the s but as I shoot weddings for money I couldnt risk it and as mentioned above the price difference. I don't own any "professional" editing software and having to remove moire after the fact would likely be a major headache. If weddings were not the case I think I would have stumped up the extra
And moire does not only occur on textiles - there are plenty of examples on all kinds of multi-patterned surfaces - bird feathers, corragated iron, fencing etc. I am not trying to over-egg this - I agree it is limited and a small risk, but I feel it is misleading to tell others not to ever let it concern you, it'll never happen. No-one can be sure of that. And the options for controlling and removing it are far from established.
Even K3 users can't tell us an exact and reliable method of determining (in the field) whether the simulator is required on or not.
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver