For help please

techno-terminator
Posted 23/07/2010 - 10:38 Link
decided since we had a break in the rain to take a few pics of the buddleia [ sp ? ] which is cheekily poking through from next door. Even more bravely decided to do it in manual

1)
[IMG]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/Anhelyna/IMGP1312.jpg[/IMG]

Which was clearly a disaster so swapped to AV and got

2)
[IMG]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/Anhelyna/IMGP1316.jpg[/IMG]

AHA - realised what the problem was - I'm not understanding shutter speed So back to manual

3)
[IMG]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/Anhelyna/IMGP1314.jpg[/IMG]

played around a bit more - frightened a bee off with the shutter click and took one more

4)
[IMG]http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/Anhelyna/IMGP1316.jpg[/IMG]

OK none of these are world shattering - they are intended to teach me and give me practice BUT I clearly have a problem in identifying how fast a shutter speed is

Any quick tips on this ?
let the education continue

proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
flossie
Posted 23/07/2010 - 11:18 Link
Well your first shot is 1/3sec - which is clearly going to be waaaay to long in daylight even at your chosen ISO-200 and F/5.6. Shot 2 & 4 are the same at 1/250sec. Shot 3 at 1/200sec looks a bit on the bright side

Trouble is, the only way to choose shutter speeds is by metering and adjusting for ISO and F-Stop. You could get an old manual meter, a chart, and a calculator. Or you could do what most people do, and use the in-camera meter, let it come up some values in Av mode, then adjust to taste - either in M mode or stay in Av and use +/- Ev.

I've got a Sekonic L-758D, which is the pretty-much the ultimate tool for the job, but I rarely use it outdoors except when playing with some M-series and M42 lenses.

With the Kx, I find it best responds to deliberatly under-exposing, then lifting in Lightroom later (its amazing how much you can do) because the built-in meter sometimes leave clipped highlights when sun hits flowers.
Still shooting in the dark (literally and metaphorically)...
Gwyn
Posted 23/07/2010 - 11:46 - Helpful Comment Link
In Manual mode if you look at the values in the viewfinder you can adjust them until they are correct - there is a little indicator which shows when you have the correct exposure. So you decide you want say F4 and set that, then twiddle with the shutter speed until the little indicator is in the middle.

Clear as mud I know, but I'm sure if you look at your manual it will explain it better than I can .
techno-terminator
Posted 23/07/2010 - 12:01 Link
OOOOOOO now that does make sense Gwyn - bless your cotton socks

Hooray I'll try that when I am out this afternoon for my Friday afternoon female gabfest

Where I'm going they have some tubs of flowers so I'll have a go
let the education continue

proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
Gwyn
Posted 23/07/2010 - 13:57 Link
Glad it made sense to someone

Have fun.
BigJacko
Posted 23/07/2010 - 14:03 - Helpful Comment Link
Just to pick from where Glynn left off (if I may), I thought it might help to illustrate what I'd do in this situation.

My first step would be to put the K-x into Auto Exposure Bracketing mode, so that I'll have three shots 'in the can' for each go - and can then pick and choose the one I like best later . I'll assume you know how to do this, because it's not essential - just a convenience. Ask if you need info.

Ok - so now I'd go into Manual (M) mode, and the first thing I'd set in this situation (a static flower) is my desired aperture. Press the AV button up top, next to the green button (to select aperture on the e-dial), and then spin the e-dial round to, say, f5.6. In all honesty, looking at your shots above, and the depth of the bloom, maybe I'd dial up f8 or even f11, to get a bit more depth of field. But not too much, if you want that far-off background to stay blurred. Experiment (later)...

Now I'd sort out my first 'guess' at a shutter speed. Either press the AV button again (to put the e-dial back into shutter speed selection mode), or just wait a moment or two for it to revert to that mode automatically. Then dial up, say, 1/250th as a starting point.

I'd then point the camera (without looking through the viewfinder) roughly at the flower, and half-press the shutter, and let go again. This will kick the light-meter into life, and show something like this on the back LCD, in the box below the ISO readout:

Comment Image


This particular example shows that the light being read, for the aperture/shutter speed/ISO combination you're using, is about 1.3 f-stops underexposed, so you'd need a bit more light in. Spin the e-dial to slow the shutter down a stop or so. Alternatively (if you're, say, going handheld, and are already down to such a slow shutter-speed that'll cause camara-shake blur), you can open the aperture up a stop (i.e. a lower number). And if you're at the limits of shutter-speed and don't want to lose the depth of field you have from your selected aperture, then press the ISO button on the back of the camera, and select the next faster (higher-number) speed. Or get a tripod, of course!

Then repeat the metering process, and see whether you're nearer the centreline. If you see:

Comment Image


then the metering has switched off! It only meters for a short while, so half-press the shutter again and let go, to turn it back on. Eventually, you'll get somewhere near:

Comment Image


..which tells you that you're pretty much 'on the money'.

Now you can bring the camera up to your eye, and sort out the focus (whether you're using manual or auto focus, you'll be looking for that bleep and the steady green hexagon). You'll see something like this at the bottom of the viewfinder:

Comment Image


... which in this case tells me that I have (reading left-to-right):
- 1/250th selected as my shutter speed (and it's currently still the thing the e-dial will alter, if I spin it - that's what the underline means)
- F5.6 is my aperture
- I'm focussed
- I'm 2 f-stops OVER exposed!!

That's your double-check, in manual mode, that last bunch of numbers. It'll read either + or - a number of f-stops (or part f-stops). Ideally, you're aiming for 0.0, which means the meter thinks the exposure is perfect. It can still be fooled, though (if the subject is back-lit, or very reflective or white, for example) - which is why I still prefer to use the Auto Exposure Bracket mode to take three shots (one underexposed, one overexposed, one 'just right' - by the metere's standards, at least!).

But that's the basic drill, anyway. If you're finding that when you look through the viewfinder, you're still 'off' on the exposure, then as before, change the shutter speed or aperture (you can do that without taking your eye away from the viewfinder, with practice), or change the ISO (alas, in M mode, that's hidden, so you'll have to come back away from the viewfinder to do that, but it's less likely to be necessary than the other two options, really).

And that's it, really! Hope this helps a bit. Not trying to claim credit for the idea, but as Gwyn referred you to the manual, I thought I'd try and rustle up the key bits to save you having to look there. We all know how much we hate manuals, right?

Good luck, and let us see how you get on.
Neil
≡≡≡≡
Pentax K-x Pentax DA L 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL Pentax DA L 55-300mm f4-5.8 ED Pentax A 50mm f2.0 Pentax AF360FGZ flash Rikenon P 50mm f1.7 Vivitar CF 28mm f2.8 (K02 Komine) Tokina 80-200mm f4 Vivitar MC 2x22 Tele Converter

"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" - Douglas 'Tin-Legs' Bader
Edited by BigJacko: 23/07/2010 - 14:05
Gwyn
Posted 23/07/2010 - 14:06 Link
A far better explanation of what I just said .
bwlchmawr
Posted 23/07/2010 - 20:55 Link
This is most interesting, folks. The K-x is obviously a great camera to use in manual mode. As well as a great camera generally.
Best wishes,

Andrew

"These places mean something and it's the job of a photographer to figure-out what the hell it is."
Robert Adams
"The camera doesn't make a bit of difference.  All of them can record what you are seeing.  But, you have to SEE."
Ernst Hass
My website: http://www.ephotozine.com/user/bwlchmawr-199050
http://s927.photobucket.com/home/ADC3440/index
https://www.flickr.com/photos/78898196@N05
lidy
Posted 23/07/2010 - 20:58 Link
It is! I immediately started leafing through my K20D manual but I don't think it has such a feature (light meter reading), does it?
Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships. - Ansel Adams -
Gwyn
Posted 23/07/2010 - 21:02 Link
lidy wrote:
It is! I immediately started leafing through my K20D manual but I don't think it has such a feature (light meter reading), does it?
Yes, it works the same way - all Pentax cameras have it AFIK.
BigJacko
Posted 23/07/2010 - 21:19 Link
Gwyn wrote:
lidy wrote:
It is! I immediately started leafing through my K20D manual but I don't think it has such a feature (light meter reading), does it?
Yes, it works the same way - all Pentax cameras have it AFIK.
It's similar, but not exactly the same, from what I can tell (bear in mind I don't own a K20D - I'm just going by the manual, here: http://www.pentax.jp/english/support/man-pdf/k20d.pdf p93,94 & 100 particularly).

There's a meter rather like the the one on the back of the K-x, up on the top-side LCD on the K20D. Unlike the K-x, the K20D's viewfinder readout is virtually the same as its LCD: a scale with a pointer, rather than the K-x's simple '+ or - number' readout.

But despite the differences, the methodology would be exactly the same: meter the subject roughly using the top-side LCD meter, tweak your exposure (SS/Ap/ISO) to get it near, then focus thru the finder, and make final adjustments to suit, using the finder's meter view. Job done, with a bit of luck!
Neil
≡≡≡≡
Pentax K-x Pentax DA L 18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL Pentax DA L 55-300mm f4-5.8 ED Pentax A 50mm f2.0 Pentax AF360FGZ flash Rikenon P 50mm f1.7 Vivitar CF 28mm f2.8 (K02 Komine) Tokina 80-200mm f4 Vivitar MC 2x22 Tele Converter

"Rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men" - Douglas 'Tin-Legs' Bader
techno-terminator
Posted 23/07/2010 - 21:24 Link
I'm stunned

You guys - particularly BigJacko and Gwyn have really taken me by surprise

This thread has turned out to be the answer to a maiden's prayer.

Now to go away and start work again

Thanks so much for this tutorial
let the education continue

proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
lidy
Posted 23/07/2010 - 21:25 Link
Thanks, Gwyn and Neil! Going to look into that tomorrow.
Dodging and burning are steps to take care of mistakes God made in establishing tonal relationships. - Ansel Adams -
terje-l
Posted 24/07/2010 - 08:20 Link
That's right, every Pentax has this feature, at least my K20D has.

I have adjusted the Meter Operating Time to 30 sec, it is so annoying that the meter switches off just because you use a little longer time to compose the picture.
Best regards
Terry

K20D, Optio I10, DA 18-55 1:3.5-5.6 AL II, A 1:1.7/50, D FA 1:2.8/100 Macro, Sigma 70-300 1:4-5.6 APO DG Macro, Pentax AF 360FGZ
Mannesty
Posted 24/07/2010 - 09:43 Link
What has been described here so well is generally known as 'Metered manual mode'. Most, if not all Pentax cameras (film and digital) going back to the MX era that have a TTL meter have this feature.
Peter E Smith - flickr Photostream

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