For anyone who loves a good rant!
Posted 13/03/2008 - 23:09
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Started to read it, but lost interest. I like taking pictures and if I like the images, or they help my memory of a day out etc then I'm happy. I am not trying to make a living out of it so who's really bothered about my pictures but me. If some one can give me some constructive criticism so much the better. To take a photo you have to have a camera, so it makes sense to get the best you can afford for your needs. I joined a camera club some years back and one of the "leading lights" in the club kept banging on about "the photographer takes the picture, the camera doesn't matter" and he had a vast array of very expensive equipment!!!!
K100D Super, 18-55, 50-200, Sigma 10-20, Sigma 70mm macro and lots of old lenses
Posted 14/03/2008 - 08:57
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Like most things, Photography requires the correct combination of equipment and the knowledge/skill to use that equipment.
A person with a K20D and a full set of DA*'s who doesn't know what an F stop is wont get far, and if they aren't willing to learn then they might as well have bought a full auto bridge camera and spent the money on a holiday.
Equaly theres only so far you can take photography with inadiquate gear.
Still, the experienced pro with a point and shoot is likely to do better than the numpty with a K20D IMHO. Knowing the limits of your equipment and working to them can do wonders.
A person with a K20D and a full set of DA*'s who doesn't know what an F stop is wont get far, and if they aren't willing to learn then they might as well have bought a full auto bridge camera and spent the money on a holiday.
Equaly theres only so far you can take photography with inadiquate gear.
Still, the experienced pro with a point and shoot is likely to do better than the numpty with a K20D IMHO. Knowing the limits of your equipment and working to them can do wonders.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 14/03/2008 - 10:12
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Whilst I enjoy Luminous Lanscape a lot, and find it very helpful, this guy really doesn't live in the real world. If you read the article about the equipment he took on safari with him it is unbelieveable - especially given that you have a luggage weight limit of just 15Kg on the small planes he used.
It seems he thinks you can only get great photos with the biggest most expensive gear around. Ken Rockwell does have a point - that photographer must have an eye for things regardless of the camera he uses. Yes you will get a better quality picture from an expensive DSLR with expensive glass than you will from a throwaway camera. But whether you will get a more pleasing picture depends entirely on the person pushing the button.
I think Ken Rockwell makes several valid points.
There are tripod tracks worn into the rocks at sites where Ansel Adams took his photos, from people, who instead of being inspired by him to attempt their own fabulous photos, feel the need to duplicate exactly what he acheived.
I have two Adams hanging on my wall. I love the photos and they inspire me, not to go off to get a photo of a moonlit Half Dome, but to learn to use light as he did, in my own surroundings.
The fact that I am happy with the photos I can take with my Ds is one reason I haven't yet moved on to a newer model. I'm still in two minds about spending so much money on a camera, when the one I have is for the most part good enough for me. I don't think buying a k20D will make me into an Ansel Adams (nor would I want it to), and i, not sure I will take any better pictures with it. The quality will be better (hopefully) but the content will still be the same as I would have taken with the Ds.
End of my rant.
It seems he thinks you can only get great photos with the biggest most expensive gear around. Ken Rockwell does have a point - that photographer must have an eye for things regardless of the camera he uses. Yes you will get a better quality picture from an expensive DSLR with expensive glass than you will from a throwaway camera. But whether you will get a more pleasing picture depends entirely on the person pushing the button.
I think Ken Rockwell makes several valid points.
There are tripod tracks worn into the rocks at sites where Ansel Adams took his photos, from people, who instead of being inspired by him to attempt their own fabulous photos, feel the need to duplicate exactly what he acheived.
I have two Adams hanging on my wall. I love the photos and they inspire me, not to go off to get a photo of a moonlit Half Dome, but to learn to use light as he did, in my own surroundings.
The fact that I am happy with the photos I can take with my Ds is one reason I haven't yet moved on to a newer model. I'm still in two minds about spending so much money on a camera, when the one I have is for the most part good enough for me. I don't think buying a k20D will make me into an Ansel Adams (nor would I want it to), and i, not sure I will take any better pictures with it. The quality will be better (hopefully) but the content will still be the same as I would have taken with the Ds.
End of my rant.
Posted 14/03/2008 - 12:12
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Well, I have to say I agree with him, because I read it as saying that you need a camera capable of producing the results you want. And if that means there's a certain amount of discussion to decide what camera/lens is best for a particular job (and there are these exact discussions on this forum), then all well and good.
For instance, I have a friend who has a particular interest in Kingfishers at the moment (well, for the last year or so). He had certain images in mind, and so he upgraded his Canon 10D to whatever model has 10 frames per second shooting, as he was missing shots before due to the lower frame rate. He's produced some superb photos.
I'm sure he could get excellent photos of the Kingfishers with a Lomo or whatever, but they wouldn't be the photos he was wanting - he had a vision, and chose the right tool for the job.
This is true for all types of photography. There are cameras and lenses that are better suited to some areas of photography than others. That's why there are different lenses and cameras to choose from. Otherwise all cameras would be the same, surely?
Okay, I've just read the Ken Rockwell piece, and although I agree with some aspects of what he said, I think he's being far to general. I still think you're far better off having equipment that gives you the quality and results that you want. If you're happy with a lo-res shot from a cameraphone, so be it, but I wouldn't be - I'd be kicking myself that I didn't have a 'proper' camera with me.
Dan
For instance, I have a friend who has a particular interest in Kingfishers at the moment (well, for the last year or so). He had certain images in mind, and so he upgraded his Canon 10D to whatever model has 10 frames per second shooting, as he was missing shots before due to the lower frame rate. He's produced some superb photos.
I'm sure he could get excellent photos of the Kingfishers with a Lomo or whatever, but they wouldn't be the photos he was wanting - he had a vision, and chose the right tool for the job.
This is true for all types of photography. There are cameras and lenses that are better suited to some areas of photography than others. That's why there are different lenses and cameras to choose from. Otherwise all cameras would be the same, surely?
Okay, I've just read the Ken Rockwell piece, and although I agree with some aspects of what he said, I think he's being far to general. I still think you're far better off having equipment that gives you the quality and results that you want. If you're happy with a lo-res shot from a cameraphone, so be it, but I wouldn't be - I'd be kicking myself that I didn't have a 'proper' camera with me.
Dan
K-3, a macro lens and a DA*300mm...
Posted 14/03/2008 - 12:14
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I believe there is truth in both. Someone with a great eye will make better pictures than someone without that eye with the same camera. But if that talented person has a technical mind and gets the opportunity to learn and use a more advanced camera the results will be much better. A person lacking the talent or technical mind may not improve results at all, but rather be worse off...
The question we all have to ask is where does our own talent and technicality end.
I've used view cameras in studio and with a lot of pain achieved results I liked, but I've seen very talented photographers not being able to get to terms with the technical aspect of these and use them as they would their DSLR camera (i.e. keeping the film, lens and focal planes parallel) and as such not improve anything, regardless of a subject that could have benefited for the additional flexibility. But I've also seen other less talented photographers with more of a technical mind use the flexibility of the view camera very accurately and to the extreme, but only for the sake of using it while not enhancing the photograph in any way suitable for the subject matter, and as such their results were worse than with their DSLRs too because they were distracted by the technical aspect.
If you don't shoot technically challenging subjects, or cannot understand the technology, or simply don't have the eye, getting a "better" camera just doesn't make sense at some point. That goes for the best among us. Esp if you consider more practical aspects like cost, size and weight as well. I'm sure I could get beautiful safari images with a Hasselblad and a 1700/4 lens mounted on it (like the one shown at the last Photokina), but I would never be able to get it in position for these great shots...
Wim
The question we all have to ask is where does our own talent and technicality end.
I've used view cameras in studio and with a lot of pain achieved results I liked, but I've seen very talented photographers not being able to get to terms with the technical aspect of these and use them as they would their DSLR camera (i.e. keeping the film, lens and focal planes parallel) and as such not improve anything, regardless of a subject that could have benefited for the additional flexibility. But I've also seen other less talented photographers with more of a technical mind use the flexibility of the view camera very accurately and to the extreme, but only for the sake of using it while not enhancing the photograph in any way suitable for the subject matter, and as such their results were worse than with their DSLRs too because they were distracted by the technical aspect.
If you don't shoot technically challenging subjects, or cannot understand the technology, or simply don't have the eye, getting a "better" camera just doesn't make sense at some point. That goes for the best among us. Esp if you consider more practical aspects like cost, size and weight as well. I'm sure I could get beautiful safari images with a Hasselblad and a 1700/4 lens mounted on it (like the one shown at the last Photokina), but I would never be able to get it in position for these great shots...
Wim
Posted 14/03/2008 - 14:44
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what it comes down to is the fact that any chain is no stronger than its weakest link.
The process of photo-making can be thought of as a chain, with links representing such things as subject, lighting, lens, camera, and photographer. Whichever link is weakest decides the strength of the chain, or photograph.
The process of photo-making can be thought of as a chain, with links representing such things as subject, lighting, lens, camera, and photographer. Whichever link is weakest decides the strength of the chain, or photograph.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 14/03/2008 - 15:13
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Yeah, but it still bugs me when my brother looks at my photos and says "Wow, you must have a really good camera..."
--------------
MZ-6,K10D,K20D,Grip,DA*Zooms,DA 18-55-200 Kit,FA50,1.7TC,AFZ360
For Saleentax FA28-90,FA100-300,Sigma EX28-80,DC18-200,
Makinon 500mm Mirror
MZ-6,K10D,K20D,Grip,DA*Zooms,DA 18-55-200 Kit,FA50,1.7TC,AFZ360
For Saleentax FA28-90,FA100-300,Sigma EX28-80,DC18-200,
Makinon 500mm Mirror
Posted 14/03/2008 - 15:41
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I must admit that my 1st purchase of a DSLR (My K10D 5-6 months ago) was a 'technical' purchase as it was a gadget I didn't have yet. Also had the perception that every shot I took would look perfect!
Through use of forums, especially this one, I have very quickly realised that the weakest link in my chain is me! This is one of the main reasons for not upgrading to the K20D, my gadget head would have bought it already! My new photographer's head tells me that I still have an enormous amount to learn amount the abilities of the equipment I already have, as well as my own lack of abilites as a photographer before I can even make an informed decision of what I need most!
It's not mentioned enough that you guys here are a massive influence to us, a great inspiration, and a seemlessly unlimited source of knowledge, so hats off to you all, and many, many thanks!
Through use of forums, especially this one, I have very quickly realised that the weakest link in my chain is me! This is one of the main reasons for not upgrading to the K20D, my gadget head would have bought it already! My new photographer's head tells me that I still have an enormous amount to learn amount the abilities of the equipment I already have, as well as my own lack of abilites as a photographer before I can even make an informed decision of what I need most!
It's not mentioned enough that you guys here are a massive influence to us, a great inspiration, and a seemlessly unlimited source of knowledge, so hats off to you all, and many, many thanks!
Posted 14/03/2008 - 15:55
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Quote:
It's not mentioned enough that you guys here are a massive influence to us, a great inspiration, and a seemlessly unlimited source of knowledge, so hats off to you all, and many, many thanks!
I think you forget the fact, that there are some great photographing galls, on this forum also. It's not mentioned enough that you guys here are a massive influence to us, a great inspiration, and a seemlessly unlimited source of knowledge, so hats off to you all, and many, many thanks!
But you are right in saying this forum has a great positive influence in finding inspiration and getting useful info. Worth more than all the camerastores you can think of.
Martin.
Posted 14/03/2008 - 17:09
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Quote:
Yeah, but it still bugs me when my brother looks at my photos and says "Wow, you must have a really good camera..."
yes, that can be annoying. And photography is the only place I've had it happen to me. No one has ever said to me "you have a really good sword" after seeing me fence, or "you have a really good pistol" when I shoot well.Yeah, but it still bugs me when my brother looks at my photos and says "Wow, you must have a really good camera..."
It could be argued that my camera equipment collection far outstrips my abilities as a photographer, but personally I like to make sure I am the weakest link in my hobbies. I find it far more frustrating when I can't do something because my equipment isn't up to it than when I haven't got the technique right.
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 14/03/2008 - 17:42
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Of course I meant guys & galls, no offence to the ladies of course!
There are some very simple points made here, mainly those of getting the right kit for the right job. The initial problem for me being a new photographer is not knowing what exactly I want to do and what does what, so kit recommendation is hard.
At the moment, I'm quite happy taking photos of anything. As an example, we went to Waddesdon Manor 4 weeks ago 'to take photos'. We had no agenda, and took the tripod along too. Photos taken varied from flowers (my comp entry this week), caged birds, covered statues, clear blue skies, the manor itself, gardens etc. etc. Because we took the tripod along too, Fiona decided to have a go at an HDR shot.
It was probably the best weather day we had this year, clear blue skies, sunshine etc and i found that I kept saying things to myself like 'would love a decent macro lens here' or 'wish this would go a bit wider' or 'wish this would go bit longer'. How wide? er... don't know. How long? er.. don't know. Fast lens needed or would one a bit slower be ok? er... don't know.
It's probably users like me that end up asking stupid bloody questions, that end up with rants like this, and I can understand why!
There are some very simple points made here, mainly those of getting the right kit for the right job. The initial problem for me being a new photographer is not knowing what exactly I want to do and what does what, so kit recommendation is hard.
At the moment, I'm quite happy taking photos of anything. As an example, we went to Waddesdon Manor 4 weeks ago 'to take photos'. We had no agenda, and took the tripod along too. Photos taken varied from flowers (my comp entry this week), caged birds, covered statues, clear blue skies, the manor itself, gardens etc. etc. Because we took the tripod along too, Fiona decided to have a go at an HDR shot.
It was probably the best weather day we had this year, clear blue skies, sunshine etc and i found that I kept saying things to myself like 'would love a decent macro lens here' or 'wish this would go a bit wider' or 'wish this would go bit longer'. How wide? er... don't know. How long? er.. don't know. Fast lens needed or would one a bit slower be ok? er... don't know.
It's probably users like me that end up asking stupid bloody questions, that end up with rants like this, and I can understand why!
Posted 14/03/2008 - 18:44
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Quote:
It was probably the best weather day we had this year, clear blue skies, sunshine etc and i found that I kept saying things to myself like 'would love a decent macro lens here' or 'wish this would go a bit wider' or 'wish this would go bit longer'. How wide? er... don't know. How long? er.. don't know. Fast lens needed or would one a bit slower be ok? er... don't know.
It's probably users like me that end up asking stupid bloody questions, that end up with rants like this, and I can understand why!
If it's any comfort, know that everyone has his/ her moments of thinking that. I know i had and have them still. Wonder if it will ever dissapear It was probably the best weather day we had this year, clear blue skies, sunshine etc and i found that I kept saying things to myself like 'would love a decent macro lens here' or 'wish this would go a bit wider' or 'wish this would go bit longer'. How wide? er... don't know. How long? er.. don't know. Fast lens needed or would one a bit slower be ok? er... don't know.
It's probably users like me that end up asking stupid bloody questions, that end up with rants like this, and I can understand why!
And regarding your last remark? There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.
Martin.
Posted 15/03/2008 - 10:10
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right on time,
http://www.whattheduck.net/
the author is a Canon user, but I don't think we should hold that against him.
(for those who may read this after the next one comes out, I'm looking at strip 433)
http://www.whattheduck.net/
the author is a Canon user, but I don't think we should hold that against him.
(for those who may read this after the next one comes out, I'm looking at strip 433)
you don't have to be mad to post here
but it does help
but it does help
Posted 15/03/2008 - 10:36
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Think he reads PUforum? I love WTD!
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2397 posts
19 years
The Netherlands
The piece you find in the next link, sure put a smile on my face. Enjoy
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/cameras-matter.shtml
Martin.
ps....Obviously I Agree
Martin.
Curious about my photography?? Just Follow the Light.