EV compensation

Well I'm not a dissenter as I don't belong to anything or are ruled by anything to dissent from.

But given there's already been one poster above who didn't read my posts properly and then wasted their time with an erroneous response I'll repeat/ clarify my position on the matter ....

I'm all for people learning the technical capabilities of camera equipment, but that's nothing to do with being indoctrinated by 'rules'

You can't help but learn the technical side of things even if you just pick up a camera for the first time and shoot, analyse, shoot,analyse rinse and repeat. You'll soon learn, for example, that a wide aperture lets more light in and gives shallow DOFs,

My main point was that it should be upto the individual to decide how they approach photography. Mr Gartmore thinks this is 'twaddle', which he is entitled to do and presumably thinks, like John and Yves above, that he knows what's best for photographers.

Whatever it takes to get the shots that you are happy with I say. I wouldn't be so presumptuous as to think I know what's best for others.

I understand what both sides of the argument are trying to say. However two things stand out. If you don't learn how to use all the features of the camera and what they do then you won't be able to create "artistic effects" because you will be just shooting random results and only luck will decide the final result. Personally I get pleasure from knowing it was my own actions that "created" the effect. I also make the assumption that most beginners when they buy their first DSLR will expect to get high quality conventional pictures, just to confirm that their purchase was worthwhile. Of course anyone is perfectly entitled to do what they like.

I have found this discussion to be interesting, but I feel the original question has been left far behind. We were asked for advice on how to correct 'dark' backgrounds when shooting, and whether to use EC or ISO settings. As a new and enthusiastic Pentax owner I want to help those newer to photography to get what they want out of their Pentax as easily as possible.

The member said he thought it was too dark, so that is his own personal assessment of his photos - he wants them brighter. So he's the judge of this. I want to help him get them brighter on his camera!

I made a couple of posts a page or so ago giving what I hoped would be practical and easily absorbed guidance. What do others think about these ideas for our newer photographer? are there any other settings or things he could try on his camera (I know he could recompose and meter from a different part of the scene, but I think first steps first!)

Changing the ISO setting will not make the image brighter.

To make the image brighter, have a look at the picture style settings and see if one suits better than whatever is currently in use. It may be that by "brighter" the OP means "more pazzaz" in which case setting Vivid or Bright might fit the bill.

Contrast and brightness can also be adjusted in the shooting menus, if required.

I assumed it was a metering problem, in which case adjusting the EV compensation will do the trick. Use + values to lighten the image and - values to darken the image, as required.

I would also say that I appreciate the points on artistic matters being made, but as far as learning camera control and achieving your desired specific effects, I don't believe for most people this will just come from no knowledge whatsover simple by shooting and changing things and shooting again.

For example, smeggypants mentioned experimenting with aperture and letting in more light. But the reality for most beginners is that the camera would be set to an automatic exposure mode, and their changes to aperture would only result in corresponding shutter speed adjustments, so they would see no difference at all on their LCDs and probably just end up wondering whats the point of all those dials and buttons.

To take the necessary control they would have to be prompted into manual mode, and for this most of us proably got the ideas from a book, or technical advice from another photographer. Most standard kit zooms won't show much difference in depth of field even at the extremes, so again the effects would often be lost on a beginner.Again, they would need some guidance and prompting on the value of trying a longer lense or one with wider apertures to appreciate the value of it.

Fair enough, but you will certainly see DOF differences with any lens as you change the aperture. It will of course need wider apertures and/or longer lenses to get very marked defocusing of the background as is often desired for portraits.

Yes, exactly, its all about the extent you are actually going to go to. It may not be the right frame of mind to adopt when pursuing a creative activity, but I suspect a lot of new users of DSLRs will be rather cautious when playing around, worrying about messing things up and making 'mistakes', so they will be unlikely to end up at the extremes of anything.

This is proably a human characteristac (failing)?, being cautious when faced with new technology. My earlier advice to the OP was specifically about how to get his Pentax camera to help him. I talked about using the dark / bright area warnings for example - I felt histograms again might be 'a bit too fast too soon'. I wonder if others have any thoughts on these ideas for using a Pentax specifically?

I was wondering about your ideas of making adjustments using the contrast / brightness / vibrant parameters etc. Sorry, I'm still in Canon woorld with this - they call these 'picture styles' I think - whats the Pentax term? But thinking about ou beginner again - these parameters are only applied to JPEGs I think. I'm wondering what the default setup is on a new Pentax DSLR - I can't remember on mine, I just set it to DNG straight away. But if it defaults to RAW would our beginner see any effect from making these parameter changes?

No, it defaults to best quality JPEG, which is a good place for anyone to start. I have seen many beginners totally lost and all because they were persuaded they had to shoot RAW.

But given there's already been one poster above who didn't read my posts properly and then wasted their time with an erroneous response I'll repeat/ clarify my position on the matter ....

I'm all for people learning the technical capabilities of camera equipment, but that's nothing to do with being indoctrinated by 'rules'

Pot and Kettle Smeggy I don't think that anyone is trying to indoctrinate anyone else. You were the first to use the word in this thread! And hopefully what i posted was of help to the OP. It wasn't for you

OK, so what you see on the LCD would be what you get when you copy it over to a computer or print it directly from the card. Then our beginners would be well advised to try out the various parameters, choosing settings they like for each different subject - although I'm getting back onto shaky terrain here when we think about preconceived ideas as to what should be set for 'landscape', 'portrait' etc.

Interestingly, even with my K7 set to DNG only, the adjustment parameters still give their effects on the LCD display following the shot, or during a digital preview (more on this later). I think this is being applied only to the JPEG preview used to produce the LCD image - these settings wouldn't transfer over to the RAW file directly.

I think its actually very hard to know exactly what an unprocessed RAW image really looks like - most RAW converters I've used have a number of presets for each key setting (contrast, brightness, black / white point etc) that is specific to each cameras RAW output. Most like ACR apply this arbitrarily, then its up to the user to further adjust each slider for each specific image.

Another approach is adopted by my favourite RAW converterr, Sagelight 4, in that it doesn't contain actual camera-specific presets, but rather actually analyses every photo individually and provides an initial default setting. I must say I find that it does a remarkably good job at this. For every shot it opens it provedes a very acceptable starting point for further adjustment. So with all this pre adjustment going on it would be hard for a beginner to know what the shot really looked like originally anyway!

Finally - I know this has gone on - lets remember that our wonderful Pentax DSLRs have a great 'Digital Preview' function. This will make the camera do everything in taking the shot except actually writing it to the card, so you can see exactly what all the settings will do to your picture. To do this you use the third position on the on/off switch, it looks like a lenses aperture blades. You need to make a change in the menu first - the default is for this third position on the switch to activate DOF preview (lets leave that), but once set to 'digital preview' moving the on/off switch to this position will take the shot and 'Preview' it on the rear LCD. It'll say there until you activate the shutter button or press menu or something else.

Nigel

This thread seems to have generated more heat than light. To me it is very simple. I aim to get a satisfactory exposure throughout the image and exposure correction helps me to do this. Where an object is backlit, the meter is fooled, so I dial in +.3 or +.7 correction. An example of this would be a person in front of a window or a plane in a bright sky, otherwise i will get a silhouette. Conversely dial in -.3 or -.7 when shooting a landscape,otherwise I end up with a blown out sky and then if necessary I bring up the shadows in post processing. Of course a lot can be corrected in post processing, but you have much more leeway to correct things if you get things right in camera.

To get back to the beginning (ie: the OP's question):

1. When I started using my K-x I thought that it would be best to set it to spot or centre-weighted metering. Then wondered why snaps of a white dog looked too dark overall! On average, my K-x seems to underexpose slightly on 'evaluative' setting, so I have a permanent +0.5 compensation set.

2. I seem to be attracted to scenes that have high contrasts: sunlight with dark shadows, or contre-jour viewpoints. Rather than fiddle about with individual compensation I now lazily have the K-x set to bracket exposures every time. This camera brackets with 3 exposures (am I right in thinking that the 'better' ones allow more?). I find that one stop above and below my +0.5 normal works for me. Errors of less than 1 stop are more easily adjusted with processing software.
It's easiest to leave the camera set to bracketing unless I really need something different. The only side effect is that I am sometimes startled by a triple clack-clack-clack when I'm just taking a casual snapshot

Martin

I for the last while have my K-x set to spot metering and will either use the AF / AE-L to lock the exposure on what I want to be the darkest area then give it a try. I often need to choose a few different spots or fine one I like then adjust the rest of the image in Photoshop Elements. I have also set the camera from Av to M an set an aperture and shutter speed to get the exposure I want takes a few practice shots which can be deleted later. I'm still a beginner and found comments on here useful and there are some good tips in magazines and on other sites. I used to want my images to turn out like others I've seen on the web but know this will take time, practice and pp skills

Will