Edit Time Limit

Well having read this thread I then went back to the Sigma Macro sale and to my suprise found a lot of it missing.
I am presuming this must have something to do with it and to some extent I feel a little responsible because the second post on the thread was deleted by myself, purely because I was interested to see if it could be done and with no malice intended . infact it only said : you have a PM re sigma lens but from thereon everything by me has been left .. unlike the original authors comments.

Anyway, I think the fact that a post can be totally deleted after any time limit is totally wrong, as for alteration, I quite often go back to a post to add more content but I have never changed the meaning of anything I have written and could live with a 30 minute limit if necessary .. but I am not sure it is.
The only thing is that it is going to be nigh on impossible to prove if you go the punishment route unless you have a backup of everything posted here as it is written.

There is, but with respect, I think you're missing Prieni's point, John.

You seem to be arguing that because a freedom is rarely exercised, it isn't much of a punishment to take it away.

I would not be happy with that as a basis for the removal of freedoms.

Prieni used the example of free speech, not because free speech is the issue, but because it's an example of a freedom which people rarely exercise in public, but which (you would presumably agree) would be a bad freedom to remove on those grounds.

I'm sorry to keep coming back to my point, but I think all this talk of whether we really need this feature, or that feature, is dealing with the wrong problem.

If there are people about that are doing what has been described, they should be taken to task about it, simple as that.

If they are not taken to task, the chances are that they will do other things that disrupt the harmony here, and the PUT will then be in the invidious position of having to think up yet more rules.

Not at all, in fact I'm not really arguing anything. I'm putting contrary and contrasting views to elicit the feedback on the original question and see what the core issues are.


What I'm trying to make sure I get at are the core reasons behind things so that I can see if there is an equitable solution to a problem that I know exists.

As yet, I personally don't have a conclusion.

Actually I have to say that is ironic. How many times did people keep asking me for rules for the Forum Competition and how many times did I say there really were none and it was up to the judge to set the parameters?

An interesting comparison.

The thing is, you fixed it then, by saying "no rules, the judge can specify any he or she pleases".

That was a complete and fitting answer, which solved all the problems.

We have a much more open-ended situation here, since as I've said, if the real problem is abuse of the forum, then it's either accidental, in which case a quiet word with the perp is all that will be necessary, or it's deliberate.

If it's deliberate, then we have a situation where someone simply isn't playing nice, and this will damage the community. Admittedly not overnight, but it will sour the air each time it happens.

My feeling is that picking a rule that prevents one particular thing, will not prevent all the other things that can be done to sour the air, and people so inclined are endlessly creative when it comes to that sort of mischief.

Dealing with those people will put a stop to all those things. Preventing edits will just drive it underground until the next time.

The point was made before that the 20 min (editing posts) rule was implemented because it could be abused. Emphasis here on the could. My car could be used to break the speed limit, but it's not restricted, that's my judgement, but if I get caught breaking it, I am punished, not the whole country.

My answer to the problem, simple, warn 'em once not to abuse the edit feature, if they do it again, prevent that person from using the edit feature again.

Should be easy to implement, system could easily flag up culprits, easily checked, easily controlled. I do appreciate that it would have to be monitored, and someone has to do it, but this is not that large a forum, and that is definately part of the appeal, wonderful community spirit here, don't want it spoiled by a couple of individuals not respecting the community we have.

I agree with Unlocker. The job of moderating a forum is down to the moderators. If it becomes too big for those available, invite worthy members to be moderators to help. I too don't see the point of penalising everyone by withdrawing a feature that's finally been put back just because of a few who may abuse it.

I have to disagree with regards to edits before any reply being of no consequence. People can read the post and not reply so it has been read and hence inherently consequential.

I think what we lack in this forum is flexibility. A lot of good points have been raised and I agree with many of the points. I treat this forum as I do emails. Once it is sent you can't change it, all you can do is send an update (Yes I know you can recall in Outlook but that is not supported everywhere and may not even be a standard).

Many forums I use restrict edits and some only offer additions i.e. you can supplement the original post.

If it was possible to view the history of a post then all problems would be solved. Edit away but your original and subsequent posts are still accessible if need be.

These are limitations in the software which won't be resolved anytime soon. In the meantime I think a time limit on edits is a good thing. I think it is more like protection as in the door to your relatives house is not closed because they don't like you (they may well do but ...) but because they want to protect themselves from people that may want steal from them. It is always an open door to you.

Well this is true, of course. But although I take your point, I'm not clear it's helpful.

I meant that it's of no consequence in the context of changing the sense of subsequent discussion - if there isn't any subsequent discussion, its sense can't be changed!

The current version is always available for inspection, and in the absence of replies, if it's different from some previous version that is remembered by someone, I can't see that as important.

Anyone replying should, I think, always quote the relevant part of the post, and, out of courtesy, make sure they've read it accurately before commenting.

Otherwise you can get the situation where a reply is drafted over some period of time without quoting, posted, and then doesn't follow directly on from the post it's replying to. Then it just gets confusing, since it's hard to tell what it refers to.

I know this sounds picky, but I think it's basic etiquette.

Another reason to edit posts is to sort out problems with quotes. My first efforts are often disastrous.

But I agree with Chris. Just because other (perhaps much bigger) forums offer less freedom than this one, does not mean we should follow them.

Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains.
The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.
For evil to prevail, requires only that good men do nothing.

Freedom! I cry.

G

Does an edit to a post make it *new* again i.e. will it show up in recent activity? If it doesn't then I think my point stands. Yes, any future conversations will not be affected but it basically means changes to the post are not obvious. The context of the post may change drastically and I may want to reply to the edited version but I won't know about it.

Of course if edits are treated as new posts then it doesn't affect most peoples work flow.

This is a rather lengthy thread.
The solution of course is to think before you type.
Preview before you post.
And if you still manage to type something, wrong/regrettable/stupid, post a note correcting/admitting/apologising, and then move on.
Why would one need to go back (much) later and change what they wrote anyways?

Many thanks to all who have contributed to the thread. Some started to stray into areas way outside the remit of a photographic forum, but all were interesting and many good points were made.

If and when anything happens in response I'll let you know.

Thanks again.

So has a suggested solution been put to the Admin people, then, as you suggested would happen at the beginning of the thread?

I have pointed out the problem that I found, sent the link to this thread and if you recall I did have one suggestion at the start. There are actually many possible solutions - one quote I once heard "don't bring me problems, bring me solutions" I thought was quite neat - and I haven't suggested any one of them as my preferred solution.

So, as it was at the beginning, there's an open verdict at the moment.

You can feel free to continue to post comments if anything else occurs to you - this thread is available to be viewed and taken note of.