Could someone give me some advice please.

Hi all,

Sorry to be a pain but I've never had to deal with any thing like this before.

To be brief - My K-r has stopped working, it has the problem with the mirror flipping and jamming which seems to be a problem with some k-xs, k-rs, and k-5s according to research on the web.

As a result it won't take photos and is useless - I've only had it about 18 months from new.

I contacted Amazon and got this reply today - we had to telephone as well as write because they tried to ignore us to start off with.


I'm not inclined to accept this as I feel a camera should last more than 18 months but does any one on here think this is a fair offer, before I decide what to do next.

I obviously don't want to be unreasonable.

Thanks for any thoughts you may have,
Kind regards
Charlotte

I don't think this is a fair offer. The EU and UK laws are to protect the consumer, you, so they should take the camera back and do what the law requires. Their argument is then with Pentax.

Best of luck for a satisfactory outcome.

Have a look at some of the consumer forums such as "Which" and
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/

Collect what evidence you can off Pentax related forums to
back up that this is a manufacturing fault.

Sony replaced a lot of sensors in various cameras for at
least 5 years because of a manufacturing fault. These
weren't just Sony cameras.

Good Luck!

Hi Charlotte

In fairness to Amazon, they have reacted in a much more positive way than many retailers I have dealt with.

However, they are spinning SOGA in their favor and are being very selective with what they are quoting.

There are really 2 possible arguments here:

1. A known inherent fault. This could be very difficult to prove unless Pentax have gone on record admitting it

2. Fit for purpose - which should be the easier route and would be my suggestion

This may be of interest to you - it is an exert taken from the government web-site and is aimed at retailers explaining to them their obligations and customer rights. The key here is "reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last":

Customers' rights last for six years

The law says that a customer can approach you with a claim about an item they purchased from you for up to six years from the date of sale (five years after discovery of the problem in Scotland).

This does not mean that everything you sell has to last six years from the date of purchase! It is the time limit for the customer to make a claim about an item. During this period, you are legally required to deal with a customer who claims that their item does not conform to contract (is faulty ) and you must decide what would be the reasonable amount of time to expect the goods to last. A customer cannot hold you responsible for fair wear and tear .

The six-year period is not the same as a guarantee, but it does mean that even where the guarantee or warranty supplied with the product has ended, your customer may still have legal rights.

Amazon are telling you:

"Under the Sale of Goods Act, a consumer is granted recourse against a seller of goods if those goods were defective at the time of purchase. This may include, in certain circumstances, repair, refund or replacement but only to the extent that doing so is not disproportionate to the value of the goods, having regard to the use the customer has already had of the goods and the nature of the goods.

Your item was dispatched to you in February 2011 and, until recently, you have used it successfully and reported no fault with the product. As you used the product satisfactorily for a period of over 12 months it is not established that the product did not conform to the contract (i.e. was defective) at the time of purchase"

This is a spurious argument designed to put you off - your claim is not based on a fault being evident at the time of purchase - it is based on the quality of the the goods not being fit for purpose i.e. the quality was not of a sufficient standard to last a reasonable expected time - in the case of a DSLR - the accepted fault free expectation would probably be around 3-4 years (regardless of the max 6 year rule) and this is the argument you should take

You may also be interested in this case of another photographer being faced with the same with Amazon:

link

The only remaining question is - have you actually checked to see how much the repair would cost? May be worth finding out.

Good Luck and keep us posted

Carl

Amazon's response is totally correct, however they have missed out one very important part of SOGA.

When using the 2 year or 6 year statute it is up to the retailer to prove the item was not faulty within the first 6 months not the customer. As you have evidence that this is a common fault as seen on many forums etc.. You can easily argue the camera did have a fault at manufacture and within the 6 months, even though the fault did not become apparent until long after that.

Fritzthedog is also correct in going down the not of satisfactory quality route, I would use both routes

I would write back telling them they have 7 days to repair or replace the camera with links to the internet where these faults have been confirmed. if they do not comply you will be going down the moneyclaim route.

I usually fill in the forms online and take a screen print and enclose these with the letter, but don't pay or start the action, this lets them know you mean business and usually results in a result in your favour.

I would also give johnsons a call to see if amazon are a Pentax Pro dealer, they would be more helpful than Amazon..

I was just about to put this .. if they are then it's a 2 year warranty anyway.

Not sure you could class it as a common fault though.

Thank you all so much for your helpful replies, lot's of useful info there.

I've been scouring the internet, the problem actually seems more prevalent than I had realised, I've collected lots of links for them to look at.

I must admit I find it slightly odd that they've even made me an offer at this stage - I thought I'd get the standard 'get lost not our problem' reply. They also forgot to write without prejudice.

Thanks again, I shall start writing a reply now using your guidlines - no doubt I'm going to have a few grey hairs by the end of this saga.

Kind regards,
Charlotte

Actually (having done a search) maybe it is

OK thanks again - I'll give Johnsons a call.


Hi Mike,
There seem to be a lot of people with k-rs experiencing this problem, I wonder whether there was a 'bad' batch and I was unlucky and got one of them.


Kind regards
Charlotte

If this was a one-off event involving only Charlotte's k-x then I would side with Amazon to some extent, but it's clearly an inherent fault with the k-x evidenced by the fact that others report the same fault, so it is clearly an inherent manufacturing defect that takes time to show itself, probably related to the amount of use the camera gets rather than the age of the camera.

Amazon's suggestion that using it for longer than 12 months is 'evidence' (my word) that there was no fault at the time of purchase is wrong. What if it had been bought and used only a couple of times in that period? Conversely, what if it had been used 60x24x7? If could have failed inside the first month. Moot argument.

Also, since Amazon are referencing and arguing UK law, and thus accepting it falls within UK jurisdiction, then the Small Claims Court process can be used for recourse, which can now be done wholly over the internet I believe, and doesn't cost much.

Just a couple of further points.

Most sensors are expected to last for 100,000 shots so if
you find out how many shots you have taken, you can quote
what percentage of use you have had or what percentage of
its expected life the camera went through before it failed.
There might even be a claim against Pentax there.

Pentax don't seem to acknowledge any faults that occur.
Early K-5's were plagued with stained sensors, but it
was never official. Also the lens release button falling off.

Just had a look at the pro dealers list and Amazon are not on it.

Link

Amazon must get a lot of claims of this nature, given the size of their operation. Their (tendentious) letter to you will be one of several possible pro-forma responses. The fact that they are making a 'no fault' offer, however inadequate, suggests that they realise you could have a legitimate claim. It really doesn't matter whether the fault is common or not. The chief consideration is that they have sold you a camera that has stopped working after 18 months of normal use. I suspect they will continue to deny their obligations until it is clear that you are going to persist. I doubt they will want to risk the small claims court - much easier and cheaper to settle.

Any court case involving SOGA always asks how much the item costs and this usually reflects in how long an item should last. Any dslr will fall into the should last longer than 18 months territory.

You could also if johnsons won't do a warranty repair ask them a price for this and then go back to Amazon asking for that amount, the fact they have offered to pay a sum to you would help any court case. I should also stress my past dealings with Amazon have usually been handled with nothing but the utmost professionalism and to my satisfaction.

Let us know what happens when you call johnsons, I have found them to be very helpful in past warranty experiences.