Considering medium format...

I've noticed a fair number of cheap Bronica ETS/ETSi outfits on ebay of late, but I'd rather stick with Pentax, so...

I'd like something which takes 120 film (or can do), but I know little about medium format beyond a brief dabble with a Lubitel 166U years ago. I'm aware that Pentax have made the 6x7 and 645 systems - what are their strengths and weaknesses? I suspect lenses for the 645 will go up in price now the 645D is here, and I rather prefer the look of the 6x7 although I realise it's a heavy beast.

Is there an equivalent to the crop factor we see when using 35mm lenses on Pentax DSLRs that I can use to work out what length of lens I'd want?

I realise that not all of the interchangeable prisms on these cameras have metering, but I'd mostly be using Ilford HP5 film which seems pretty tolerant so I should be ok with "Sunny 16".

What sort of money should I budget? I can probably scrape around the £200 mark together which would bag a basic Bronica kit with body, prism, lens and film back. Will this get me anywhere in Pentax MF or am I asking for miracles?

You get 15 shots to a roll of 120 on a 645 and 10 shots on 67, 67 is a bigger neg than 645 so you can make bigger enlargements.

Forget this 'crop factor' stuff, on 645 a 55mm lens is the equivalent of a 35mm lens on 135 format, similarly a 45mm is the equivalent of 28mm and so on.

As I mentioned elsewhere you'd be better off using a handhald meter and full manual, you will be using a very heavy tripod anyway.

You're unlikely to get a Pentax 645 body in decent nick under £250, a standard lens maybe £100 and you'll probably need 3 film holders so maybe another £100.

Most 67s have seen seriously heavy use.

I sold all my MF kit to SRS a year ago, it just wasn't used anymore and the images from my K20 are better IMO.

Thanks for that - looks like it might be a better idea for me to keep an eye open for that LX body I've always fancied then! At least that way I wouldn't have to go hunting new lenses/developing tank/keep more than one type of film handy.

If you want to dabble with120 film have a quick look at my section HERE.

I know they're not Pentax, but they are fun and cost next to nothing.

yashica had some nice tlr's... I used to use one for a few weddings way back... alongside my k1000.

Weirdly, I quite fancy an old rangefinder of some sort too (been looking at FED IIs but the Parcelfarce "admin charge" fine on top of the import duty would make them stupidly expensive). I rather like the look of that Voightlander Bessar mind...

If that's my Bessa you mean it cost £20 in a charity shop and is a dream to use.

They tend op cost more on ebay so a trip around the shops may be a good idea.

My Ensign Selfix 20, although not as easy to use, is also a common camera which can give good results. Again mine came from a charity shop for the princely sum of £10.

Yep, I somehow managed to add an extra "r"!

I've seen them similarly cheap on ebay after a brief rummage, my main worry is that I don't have a film scanner big enough for 120 film. Our local charity shops are a dead loss for camera gear, one suggestion I've heard is that they have people waiting for any so it never makes it onto the shelves.

Presumably you carry a customised version of "sunny 16" around to suit the camera? Just thinking as it appears to use non-standard shutter speeds it might be entertaining trying to use said rule with it.

I think something like a Bessa is a better bet for me, as they look to be available for £20-£30 rather than the £150 or so for the Bronica.

You can pick hand held lightmeters cheaply enough too. I was never very good with the sunny 16 thing... The Lubitel 166 is pretty horrible, the older Lubitel 2 has a much better lens and no vignetting. My only criticism is that it doesn't wind the film through square so the scans end up with a little triangle of black on one edge. My Yashica Mat-124 G is a much better TLR but it is much bigger and heavier. Personally, I am planning on getting a 67 one day but like Hefty I shall hold out for a good example.

Cheers, Kris.

I sold a Pentax 645 outfit a few months back (body, film holder and 80mm lens) on eBay for £175 so it is possible. The one I sold was a little tatty but perfectly useable.

I've had fun with various folders and it's certainly the cheapest way to get into medium format shooting, just don't forget that they tend to be basic in the extreme unless you go for a Bessa II or Super Ikonta III/IV. Always check the fold out lens board locks into place and that the lens is parallel with the back, otherwise pass them by...

My personal recommendation though (for MF on a budget) would be as others have suggested - a Yashica Mat. You can get them for around £100 and while they don't have the engineering finesse of a Rollei they are pretty sturdy and produce excellent results. Don't get hung up on the meters, at this age it's hit and miss whether they'll respond to light anyway let alone be accurate - another £5-10 will give you a hand held meter that will do a better job in all lilkelihood. Plus they look cooler without a wart-like meter on top (but then I would say that as my YM doesn't have one).

You can scan 120 on an ordinary flatbed scanner.

I do with some success.

Another option is to use a light box and take a digital photo of the neg, bit long winded but it does work.

I have a handheld meter, it does respond although I really need to calibrate it properly.

There is a 67 listed at the moment which looks like it has been in a fight, £21 with ten hours left. I'll see how much that one goes for I think, as it would look perfectly presentable with a new prism unit (and by the sounds of it works fine with a dented one). I'm guessing that lenses are the expensive part rather than bodies!

I think the TLR is also a good way to try medium format, Rollei are expensive, but you can find some cheap ones by Japanese Yashica or Minolta. You dont need to consider other lens for them, coz they cannot change lens, except Mamiya's C system, so the investment is also limited.

And they are really cool...

A handheld meter and a 124G took me on a great learning curve in both exposure and composition.Everyone should try something similar

Well, just a few brief weeks ago, I was in exactly your position.

First, it's a good idea to lurk around the MF forums, just to get an idea of what is available and just how much trouble you can expect from the gear.

For example, many posters have suffered grief with early Bronicas and Pentacons, although they are very appealing. (I recently had a Bronica S2 give up the ghost while I was examining it in the shop. The exasperated vendor's unguarded verbalization about the marque -in general- was quite a revelation!

On the other hand, Yashica TLR owners seem pretty happy.

Eventually, I found a "working order" Yashica 635 TLR (6x6 format) including a #2 diopter -at a very reasonable price- which performs like a charm and produces amazingly sharp images (even when using the diopter) from the triplet lens.

Naturally, I couldn't just stop there: I then fell for an Asahi Pentax 6x7, again very well used (brassing and tiny little dings everywhere) but "in good working order" , with a single (interchangeable) 200/4 lens. I also added a set of Hoya close-up diopters to my arsenal: these work very well!

Unfortunately, the TTL prism underexposed by about 2.5 stops and gave me a dramtically moody first roll of negatives. However, the second roll (using a hand-held meter) proved better , and -having had the meter recalibrated by the vendor- I'm now in the process of trying it out on my third and fourth rolls.

Insofar as the 6x6 and the 6x7 formats go, I must say I absolutely favour the 6x7, even if the AP6x7 is so much bigger and heavier (and has given me more teething problems) than the Yashica 635

As far as the cropping factor goes, a rough doubling of the 35mm lens in question approximately equates to the equivalent 6x7 lens.