Composition Question(s)


Aitch53

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 08:51
I’ve just been looking at womble’s ‘Two takes on the same image’ images/thread and it set me to thinking. I like the image, but…

Something about it niggled. Then I realised what - in my opinion, the image looks better flipped. That way the lead-in lines seem to flow better. This in turn set me thinking about composition and learned behaviour.

I am English and English is my native language. In English we learn to read left-to-right, which presumably feeds into the concepts of composition we learn. However, I’m also right-handed and I’ve also noticed that some younger children who are left handed try to write right-to-left.

So, a couple of questions:

1. Are there any members of the board whose native language reads right-to-left (or bottom-to-top)? And does it affect how the leading lines in an image work best for them?
2. Any left-handers who feel something/anything similar?

Or is it just me?

Oh, and I'm not dissing womble or his image/composition, just using it as an example.
SteveH!

Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'.

bforbes

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 09:09
I'm left handed but I think I still read an image left to right and I'm not adverse to flipping an image if I think it looks better.

https://www.pentaxuser.com/forum/topic/artistic-licence-or-taking-a-liberty-5937...

Your observation about the children writing could be a brain thing, but it could be just practical. When you write left handed your hand obscures what your doing, so the children might be trying to overcome that. Normally left handers would turn the page at right angles or write with a pronounced backward slope
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

womble

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 09:55
Interesting question, and one I think I have come across before. With this particular image I couldn't flip it simply because I know the scene so well it would just scream "wrong", but I can see that someone who knew nothing about this particular location might well prefer it back-to-front.

There is an excavation report which has a reconstruction on the front cover which has been flipped to fit the cover design better, but to anyone who knows the site it just looks wrong!

I'm interested to see what others think. K.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.

My website

womble

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 10:11
Just so everyone can see what we mean:

The original image:



snowing (2) par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity

The image flipped:



snowing (backwards) par Kris Lockyear, on ipernity
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.

My website

derek897

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 11:18
I'm not adverse to flipping an image if it works better, but I wouldn't flip this one.
Might be just me but I prefer the unflipped one.
I know what i like, If not always why.

johnha

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 11:20
I prefer the original 'top' image, although in this case they both work as the bottom one could have been taken from the other side of the gate.

Composition is such a personal thing, but the best book I've seen on it is 'The Image' by Michael Freeman.
PPG Flickr
Last Edited by johnha on 01/03/2018 - 11:22

richandfleur

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 12:08
What a neat discussion.

Amusing watching myself ‘read’ both those images quite differently 🤔

johnriley

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 12:55
I realised when looking at these that I scanned both of them the same way. The first one I looked first at the posts and the gap between them, then my eye flooated on the the left to take in the gate. With the second I looked at the gate first and then backtracked along, now my eye was moving away from the image and out to the left.

So the first image pulls me in and the second one allows me to drift out. I prefer the first image, and I think for the reason just mentioned. If my eye scanned a different way (right handed vs left handed?) I might prefer the other.

Does this right hand/left hand theory hold up for others? I'm right handed and prefer image 1. Do left handed members prefer image 2?
Best regards, John
Last Edited by johnriley on 01/03/2018 - 12:55

Aitch53

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 13:00
As I said, I'm right-handed and prefer #2.

Also, I'm right eye dominant, if that makes a difference.
SteveH!

Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'.
Last Edited by Aitch53 on 01/03/2018 - 13:01

bforbes

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 13:15
derek897 wrote:
I'm not adverse to flipping an image if it works better, but I wouldn't flip this one.
Might be just me but I prefer the unflipped one.

johnha wrote:
I prefer the original 'top' image, although in this case they both work as the bottom one could have been taken from the other side of the gate.

Composition is such a personal thing, but the best book I've seen on it is 'The Image' by Michael Freeman.

It must be personal, as I prefer the second. If it was determined subconsciously would we all pick the same?
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

derek897

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 13:21
Can you set up a poll for this one ?

I'm right handed and right eye dominant and I prefer the first.
I know what i like, If not always why.

Aitch53

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 13:27
bforbes wrote:
derek897 wrote:
I'm not adverse to flipping an image if it works better, but I wouldn't flip this one.
Might be just me but I prefer the unflipped one.

johnha wrote:
I prefer the original 'top' image, although in this case they both work as the bottom one could have been taken from the other side of the gate.

Composition is such a personal thing, but the best book I've seen on it is 'The Image' by Michael Freeman.

It must be personal, as I prefer the second. If it was determined subconsciously would we all pick the same?

Just to make things more complicated, could it also depend on which one you see first?

Or even, how recently you read a book on composition?
SteveH!

Some people call me 'strange'. I prefer 'unconventional'.
But I'm willing to compromise and accept 'eccentric'.

bforbes

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 14:05
Aitch53 wrote:
Or even, how recently you read a book on composition?

IAEFRTFM
Barrie
Too Old To Die Young
.
Pentax K1 K5-IIS K-01 K20D A50/2 A50/1.7 DA10-17 DA18-250 DA18-135 DA18-55 DA300 DA40 DA50-135 DA50-200 DA55-300 DA70 F35-70 DFA150-450 FA20-35 FA100 FA135 FA35 FA28 FA43 FA50 FA77 K55/1.8 M135/3.5 M200/4 M28/3.5 M28/2.8 M40/2.8 Q 01 02 MX-1 I-10 Sigma 15 24 105 180 8-16 10-20 17-35 17-50/2.8 24-70 400/5.6MF Tamron 70-200/2.8 17/3.5MF 24/2.5MF 28/2.5MF 90/2.5MF


http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/artists/barrieforbes

derek897

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 14:42
Aitch53 wrote:
bforbes wrote:
Quote:
I'm not adverse to flipping an image if it works better, but I wouldn't flip this one.
Might be just me but I prefer the unflipped one.

johnha wrote:
I prefer the original 'top' image, although in this case they both work as the bottom one could have been taken from the other side of the gate.

Composition is such a personal thing, but the best book I've seen on it is 'The Image' by Michael Freeman.

It must be personal, as I prefer the second. If it was determined subconsciously would we all pick the same?

Just to make things more complicated, could it also depend on which one you see first?

Or even, how recently you read a book on composition?

I've never read one, would that not mess up the results
I know what i like, If not always why.

Algernon

Link Posted 01/03/2018 - 16:06
The only way to answer this correctly/exactly/precisely is to flip a coin

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi
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