Composition lessons - Where can I learn more?

Just a post to all you good people...

Does anyone know where I can learn more about the "art" side of photography? I've been snapping for yonks, and technically I have no problems, but I would like some way of learning better ways to compose and arrange - to make the best of my technical knowledge.

I have seen http://www.webphotoschool.com which has some really nice lessons, but relies a lot on a car-load of lighting gear that I don't own (yet).

I've also been (erroneously) posted information from NYIP (New York Institute of Photography), but this seems very expensive. See http://www.nyip.com

An online/correspondence style learning would suit me better as I work full time (in electronics engineering and software), and have a very lively young family to care for, but any suggestions, and personal experiences, would be greatly appreciated.

The Pentax User Mag has been very helpful (having secured the past 3 years of back issues), but an all-in-one guide would be good.

Thanks!
Matt
gallery: http://www.pbase.com/mattmatic

Hi all (again!),

Maybe my last post was a little vaugue... What I was specifically looking for was lessons on composition. Sort of "what makes a good shot", whether that is rule-of-thirds, features, drawing the eye in, negative space, colour etc. Most of the images I feel are good were all just 'caught', and I feel I need to be more active in setting up shots and knowing what to look for and aim towards.

If there's nothing available, then maybe someone could cast a critical eye over my gallery?

Thanks

Matt

(Looks like I might be talking to myself.. )

Found these very helpful links...
(The top two were very good)

http://www.kodak.com/global....s.shtml
http://www.studyworksonline.com/cda....0.shtml

http://www.agfanet.com/en....ex.php3

http://www.tcm.rmit.edu.au/notes/GoldenMean/golden1.htm
http://www.photosecrets.com/

If anyone has others to add...

Matt

Hi Matt

I will certainly have a serious look at your web site in the near future, but in the meantime a few comments.

Why not invest in two things - a good book on general photographic skills will cover the basic principles, but then as large a choice as possible of photographic books that show the work of great photographers. Look at Ansel Adams, Julia Margaret Cameron, Bob Carlos-Clarke, David bailey, Terence donovan, Atget, Man Ray and hundreds of others. They will show you by example how to take those basic "rules" and use them or ignore them to make great photographs.

I like two quotes in particular - Ansel Adams made the point that he did not take photographs, he
made photographs. And someone else gave great advice on how to make your photos ooze quality and sharpness, "Make small prints!"

Thanks John

I appreciate your comments and offer to look at the gallery. Regarding my previous message, I found the tips have already put a more interesting slant on my 'photographic eye'. As one of the sites mentioned, art composition rules apply equally to photography... so I might look in that area too.

Having looked at some of the 'ground rules' I feel better equipped to analyse the work of others.

Your quotes were very good It's true about the small size... even really useless shots (e.g. blurred) can be used in the right setting if small enough!

(Maybe you could run an article or series in the PUM, Peter?!)

Matt

Apart from what has already been said, spend a lot of time looking at photographs that others, who may be expected to be good judges, think are good.

Then try to identify what you like and dislike, and what they like and dislike, and why.

I spent quite a bit of time attending workshops, etc, for people who are thinking of getting distinctions with the RPS. I got to see quite a bit of LRPS, ARPS and FRPS material. I also got to show my own, and get comments on it.

One thing I find very useful is movies - perhaps the major films. They sometimes have a slow shot or two at the start of a major new scene, to set the context before the action starts. These slow shots are often examples of superbly-composed photographs (forget the fact that they also move). They have all the advantages of top photographers at top locations, often in super lighting conditions, but before they have to concentrate on the story and action instead. They are especially, but not only, good for landscapes.

I have what used to called "Photography Year Book", now "AAPPL Yearbook of Photography and Imaging", going back decades. When I got one for Christmas 2002, I had to withdraw the landscapes I was about to put on my web site and reprocess them all to get closer (still way off) to the expectation set by this book.

I echo the comment about Adams, etc. If you are interested in landscapes, it can be a good idea to buy books locally when you are on your travels. You find photographs by people who have made every opportunity to understand the area and find the best light. (A bit depressing if you then compare them with your own).

I appreciate your comments Barry. Thank you.

You are right about the local photography - we bought a very good photo book of Prague last year which is stunning. It does get a bit depressing comparing with your own images, however, I was fairly pleased with some of my images.

I have been rootling around the 'net looking for general composition guides which has given me a good foundation for analysing the work of others. I've also bought a couple of books from Amazon that had very good reviews... I will keep you all posted. (Maybe I'll give you all a mini book review.)

For those interested, I found buying a digital camera very useful for composition (it wasn't a Pentax though :0 ). I took something like 1000 photos in a matter of weeks, not touching my SLR. It gave me the opportunity to try out loads of ideas without wasting film. And then when I picked up the SLR... zowee! My eye had changed completely... then bought the Z1 and I'm reallly enjoying it

Many thanks,
Matt

Hi again everyone!

I have been busy reading two books I bought from Amazon, and thought I would post a very very quick review...

First, the links:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec....4962808

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec....4962808

Author does email tutorials too: http://www.betterphoto.com/sites4photogs/dynoMG.asp?memberID=6694

The author's home site: http://www.bfpphoto.com

Now the contents...
"Learning to See Creatively" - covers the approaches to a subject, ways to make a strong photo, ways to evoke emotion. The technical points are a little out of date for today's modern cameras, but not irrelevant. I've read this one completely, and many times I had the "duh" moment where I realised why my photo wasn't as powerful as I'd imagined it to be. The photos are beautifully reproduced (my wife wants to move to Oregon looking at the images! ), the text is very clear and almost conversational - a good and easy read, and the tips are great (some are obvious but still worth saying - I'd missed many of them myself! ). Already I am approaching things differently.

"Understanding Exposure" - is not just about f-stops and shutter speeds. It covers film types, lighting, and making the most of situations - oh yes, and finding the right situation. Like the other book, the technical details are good and worth knowing, but life is much easier with the current line up of Pentax metering. Once again, there have already been several "duh" moments for me, and I'm only 1/3 way through it.

Bryan Peterson's style is far from arrogant. In fact he's very candid and honest about his approach to photography. In the "Understanding Exposure" book he asks the reader to pass on the tips you learn to other less experienced photographers... a good tip.

Overall, I think I've received a good boost to improve my photographic skills... unfortunately I'm now looking at my library and wondering which ones are worth keeping !

Enjoy!
Matt