Advice required

I'm not sure I can agree with this. Does this mean if there genuinely isn't the budget to pay for photographs, then the book shouldn't be published? Should we potentially deny children educational resources because we don't want to "devalue" the work of professional photographers? I know this is taking it to extremes, but it is purely to illustrate a point.

The people putting the book together have a choice to make. They need to decide whether the work of a "professional" photographer is going to improve the book sufficiently to make it worthwhile paying a fee.

This is the free market economy at work, and whilst people may not agree with it, it is how the world works. I'm a member of two theatre groups who put on 7 performances a year between them. Budgets are tight, so we do on occasion perform plays which are free to put on (no royalties are payable for plays by Shakespeare, for example). By your logic, this is devaluing the work of other play-writes, as we are getting something for free which others would charge us for.

In fact, should people be allowed to come and see an amateur production of any play, as it surely devalues the work done by professional theatre groups?

I also do free car valets for some of my friends (it is a hobby rather than something I make any money off). Am I devaluing the work of "professional" car valets by doing this? Should I be derided for it?

People will only pay what they consider something to be worth, and perceived values change as time goes on. The digital era has made photography far more accessible for the amateur, and as a result more people are able to produce decent quality shots. I'm not trying to say they are as good as the shots a pro might produce, but for the majority of uses they might well be good enough.

Unfortunately, this means that the people who have made a decent living off photography in the past might not be able to do so in the future. This happens in all areas of life, new technologies alter our perception of the value of existing products/services, and mean people have to adapt or suffer the consequences. I'm sure most pro photographers have enjoyed the benefits that digital has brought them, unfortunately they also have to suffer the drawbacks.

Sorry if this has come across as a bit of a rant, it certainly wasn't meant to.

I can agree with the sentiment "giving your work away devalues the work of others". You bring the market rate down.

If you are detailing, and doing a good job of it, you are also denying a professional the work. You should be charging for it - at least materials and a (beer) token for time. Clay doesn't rejuvenate itself, does it?

Same thing for any photography used professionally.
Any picture, anywhere, that is used for commercial purposes, should have a fee attached. Give it to charity if you feel bad about it.

This is from another thread, over on TalkAudio, about similar issues, this time a magazine:

a response or two:

You invest in something - if it's good enough that someone wants it, they should be paying for it, even if it's only a token.

Bret

Bret,

I stand by what I said in my previous post, that this is the free market economy at work, like it or lump it.

People will only pay what they perceive to be the value of something, be it a car, a picture, a CD, whatever. Someone putting together a book and not wanting to pay for photos is going to have to accept that they're not going to get the work of a professional. If they're okay with that and can find someone willing to give away a photo, then who's to stop them?

Besides, if someone genuinely has no budget for photos, then it's highly unlikely that it is denying a professional photographer money, as if they can't find a photo for free, they won't have the money to pay for a professional's work.

Like I said before, the digital era has narrowed the gap between the enthusiast and the professional, and these are implications. I'm not suggesting that this means anyone can produce as good a photo as a professional photographer, but they can produce photos which are good enough for their purpose. Very good professional photographers will still get plenty of work, but the ones who are not so good might find themselves marginalised to the point of finding a new career.

With regards my detailing (I used the word valet, as most people can identify with that), I've never charged, and never will. It's a hobby of mine and something I enjoy doing. I do it as a favour to my friends and family, because I enjoy doing nice things for people that mean the most to me. I also offer them as raffle prizes for charity events. If that is to the detriment of the professionals then so be it, I won't lose any sleep. Having seen the work of the "professionals" in my area, I'd be gutted if any friends and family actually paid them for their services. I'm in a position where I'm able to afford my material costs, and happy to do so, so why should I charge if I don't want to? And what if I did charge a token amount? The professional is still "losing" the work, what good does it do them?

The same applies to everything. Freedom is a right we're lucky to have, and we are free to charge whatever we see fit for our time/services. Volunteer workers support so many industries in the UK, if they were forced to charge their time many organisations would be forced out of business, and this country would be a poorer place.

I shall try and find out more about the publisher and their intentions.

I have had many photographs published as illustrations and so my ego doesn't need massaging in that regard. Knowing a fair bit about the publishing world, even though this book is intended for educational purposes it will still be sold for a profit. The fact that it is aimed at schools doesn't make it a charitable production: publishers publish for one reason and one reason only, to make money. My feeling was that if photo magazines pay about 25 pounds for a photograph, then that is about what I should charge. Not enough to break the budget of a low-cost production but enough to make a point.

Best wishes, Kris.

That's sounds a reasonable stance to take.

The only beneficiaries of such a transaction would be your bank; after wire transfer fees/fx dealing costs you are unlikely to net more than fiver -- if you’re lucky!

Also with an IBAN code?

I think you should insist on a payment, however small. A free copy of the book is a normal gesture, but in Danish?

UK banks like to charge £20-30 per electronic transaction, (IBAN is just a way of stating the address of the receiving bank). The itemisation of such charges will vary according to the precise method employed, and frequently demonstrates considerable creative flair.

Will this picture ever see the light of day if they don't use it?
If they are who they say they are then I'd let them.

I had a couple of images used to promote cycling and one for adult education, both by county council. I reasoned both were worthwhile causes and yes I've had a couple of images published.

Its a shop window.

With reference to the credit, can't you supply the high-res image with a watermark/copyright notice burned in?

That is, of course, if you are going ahead with it...

IBAN transactions in Euros are required to cost the same as an intra-country transfer, at least from within the SEPA area. Translation? It should be less than €1. Of course, if you ask most UK banks what an IBAN or BIC are, they'll look at you as if you've just arrived from the moon.
Shared cost transfers back to Europe should also only cost minimally, too. This is what Europe's all about.

There's also no indication that the house in question is printing in Denmark; my daughter's (bilingual) schoolbooks are printed here, though we are getting off the point here...

Bret

Within the Eurozone international transfers, marked as shared, are free.

To the UK/non Euro areas and between non Euro areas there is still the option of we/shared/you pay.

You should make sure any payment in DKK to a UK GBP account is on a We pay basis - ie the payer pays all fees and charges, not the payee.

"Of course, if you ask most UK banks what an IBAN or BIC are, they'll look at you as if you've just arrived from the moon."

Leaping to the defence of my bank (LloydsTSB)- not something I do on a regular basis - they provide the IBAN and BIC on my statements, along with the branch, sort code and account number, etc., so they clearly do know what they are. Useful when transferring funds to my daughter's account in Ireland. But, oh the cost of transfers!!

All the banks I deal with are fully aware of these and include the information on statements. The IBAN number is not such a mystery if you look at it closely and break it down.