Advice please :)
Posted 31/01/2017 - 20:05
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Hi all, and thanks for all your input. I am in a position where i had to sell my camera gear to pay the solicitors costs for buying a house,thats how come i am in the position i am in.
I really love the Eos system, it's what i started out with about ten years ago. I think originally i chose Canon because everyone else had it. These days i feel i have been there, done that, had flash lenses and camera bodies and i just feel like i have an opportunity to " see what else is out there".
I must say i like the vibrance the Pentax photos render,and the detail is brilliant , but i have a few unresolved doubts about the focusing system. If only Pentax put more efforts into developing it more, i'm sure droves of people would move over without hesitation.
I really love the Eos system, it's what i started out with about ten years ago. I think originally i chose Canon because everyone else had it. These days i feel i have been there, done that, had flash lenses and camera bodies and i just feel like i have an opportunity to " see what else is out there".
I must say i like the vibrance the Pentax photos render,and the detail is brilliant , but i have a few unresolved doubts about the focusing system. If only Pentax put more efforts into developing it more, i'm sure droves of people would move over without hesitation.
Posted 31/01/2017 - 23:31
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Your best bet is to go and try some somewhere, See how they feel compared to your EOS. Take a memory card with you and compare the results. See how you find the focussing by comparison. Only then will you know if its right for you.
I found the basic 18-55 lens supplied with the Pentax streets ahead of the equivalent Canon, and that lens isn't particularly well regarded. I photographed a bar code which on the Canon came out just a blur but was perfectly clear on the Pentax (both taken with flash to avoid camera shake.) Then the Canon consumer telezoom which I also had (around a 75-300) was so poor at 300mm it was almost unusable. I didn't think much of the brand that so many were enthusing about. So EOS sold and back to Pentax from then on and all my old film lenses gained a new lease of life!
Also don't get me started on a film EOS300, it ate batteries for breakfast compared to the batteries that had been in my Pentax film bodies for a decade, and still worked!
No way would I go that route again.
I found the basic 18-55 lens supplied with the Pentax streets ahead of the equivalent Canon, and that lens isn't particularly well regarded. I photographed a bar code which on the Canon came out just a blur but was perfectly clear on the Pentax (both taken with flash to avoid camera shake.) Then the Canon consumer telezoom which I also had (around a 75-300) was so poor at 300mm it was almost unusable. I didn't think much of the brand that so many were enthusing about. So EOS sold and back to Pentax from then on and all my old film lenses gained a new lease of life!
Also don't get me started on a film EOS300, it ate batteries for breakfast compared to the batteries that had been in my Pentax film bodies for a decade, and still worked!
No way would I go that route again.
John K
Posted 01/02/2017 - 12:27
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Ah, maybe it's not my Pentax gear that is slow to track and focus ... maybe it's because I have spent much longer getting to know my Canon equipment and have much better technique with it so enabling me to track and focus with a camera that is at least 4 years older than the K-3II
Or maybe it's just that my Pentax gear is slow to track and focus.
Or maybe it's just that my Pentax gear is slow to track and focus.
Posted 01/02/2017 - 12:32
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Mike, there's more to a camera than its ability to track and focus, especially when one doesn't use that facility! What's right for you may not be right for someone else so there's no need to be sarcastic like that.
You buy what's right for you and I'll buy what's right for me.
Edit: If that facility was offered for a premium in a camera I wouldn't go for it as I have no use for it. Similarly with enhanced video features some call for. I'm quite happy with the offerings as presented. I dare say though that both will continue to get enhanced, hopefully without impinging on the other features and requiring a totally different camera with a different mount as it would then only be a Pentax in name.
You buy what's right for you and I'll buy what's right for me.
Edit: If that facility was offered for a premium in a camera I wouldn't go for it as I have no use for it. Similarly with enhanced video features some call for. I'm quite happy with the offerings as presented. I dare say though that both will continue to get enhanced, hopefully without impinging on the other features and requiring a totally different camera with a different mount as it would then only be a Pentax in name.
John K
Posted 01/02/2017 - 13:08
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I quite agree there is more to a camera than it's ability to track and focus John but isn't this is what the original post was all about?. It wasn't about technique, it wasn't about handling,menus or peoples idea of how a make performs after 5 minutes of use, it was mainly about Pentax vs Canon and how fast each marque will lock on to a moving subject. Since I own both Canon and Pentax I think I can probably give more of a realistic idea of how they perform.
It's also interesting to note that since the release of the KP (and everybody panicking that it was the K-3 successor) the most asked for upgrade has been faster focus, in fact it always has been, ever since the K10D days and we have lost a lot of good photographers in the past purely because Pentax is behind in that area. Again, that is their choice and I am lucky enough to be able to run 2 systems (as are quite a few users on this forum, Danny being the latest with his D500 and why did he change? AF speed and tracking) but were I only able to run one system it would be a very hard choice indeed because it's plainly clear that this is not at the top of Pentax's agenda and never has been.
As for sarcasm ... I think I was actually pretty restrained.
It's also interesting to note that since the release of the KP (and everybody panicking that it was the K-3 successor) the most asked for upgrade has been faster focus, in fact it always has been, ever since the K10D days and we have lost a lot of good photographers in the past purely because Pentax is behind in that area. Again, that is their choice and I am lucky enough to be able to run 2 systems (as are quite a few users on this forum, Danny being the latest with his D500 and why did he change? AF speed and tracking) but were I only able to run one system it would be a very hard choice indeed because it's plainly clear that this is not at the top of Pentax's agenda and never has been.
As for sarcasm ... I think I was actually pretty restrained.
Posted 01/02/2017 - 13:23
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I'm pretty sure they must be working on it as I can only presume that's the idea behind the KAF4 mount and the new PLM lenses.
However there are some of us who are quite content to use lenses produced before autofocus was invented. At least Pentax make that relatively straightforward so don't see the problem.
However there are some of us who are quite content to use lenses produced before autofocus was invented. At least Pentax make that relatively straightforward so don't see the problem.
John K
Posted 01/02/2017 - 13:39
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As you edited your post after (or while) I posted
JAK wrote:
However there are some of us who are quite content to use lenses produced before autofocus was invented. At least Pentax make that relatively straightforward so don't see the problem.
I think you get me wrong, I have no problem with people that are happy with their gear and I can also see other peoples point of view when others go on about focus speed, tracking or even Video (I don't use video, I doubt I will ever use video but there is one person ... no names mentioned that seems totally obsessed with Pentax video) but I was just answering the original post. I didn't mention anything about technique or handling because, as you rightly say, everyone has different ideas about that but simple AF speed is very easy to comment on when you use both makes together (using much the same technique).
However there are some of us who are quite content to use lenses produced before autofocus was invented. At least Pentax make that relatively straightforward so don't see the problem.
Posted 01/02/2017 - 13:46
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Perhaps the underlying point being made is that it is not helpful to focus (ha ha) exclusively on the technical AF capabilities ..... That in total there are many more factors that will add up to better images, both in the camera designs and features and the photographers approaches and techniques.
A scientific AF speed test that showed a 5Dsiii was faster than a K1 does not mean that any individual person will necessarily produce better images with the 5Dsiii. That would be determined by a far more complex mix of conditions.
A scientific AF speed test that showed a 5Dsiii was faster than a K1 does not mean that any individual person will necessarily produce better images with the 5Dsiii. That would be determined by a far more complex mix of conditions.
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Posted 01/02/2017 - 15:21
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Nigel, I keep on agreeing with you!
Mike, sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to get across and you're right to answer the question. However when choosing a camera, just looking at one aspect of it, particularly a point that is generally recognised to be a weak one for the brand, doesn't mean it is that bad to not be usable for the purpose. Some may think it is, some not.
A camera could have the fastest AF of any camera ever invented but be totally useless in all other respects such as when all its functions have to be set from a complex menu system on a screen that can't be seen when its sunny! By time the autofocus has been set the subject would be long gone.
Mike, sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to get across and you're right to answer the question. However when choosing a camera, just looking at one aspect of it, particularly a point that is generally recognised to be a weak one for the brand, doesn't mean it is that bad to not be usable for the purpose. Some may think it is, some not.
A camera could have the fastest AF of any camera ever invented but be totally useless in all other respects such as when all its functions have to be set from a complex menu system on a screen that can't be seen when its sunny! By time the autofocus has been set the subject would be long gone.
John K
Posted 01/02/2017 - 16:33
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It's a matter of balance to some degree. For example, the RAW vs JPEG argument gets so heated that I've met people who were surprised that we could get any sort of image out of a JPEG file, never mind a high quality one.
Focusing is something else. I've used a lot of cameras in the past couple of years in particular and for general purpose use there is little to choose between them. Without mentioning names, I have had very expensive camera bodies flumoxed by situations that would have been a breeze with Pentax. Likewise, I am sure that there are situations where Pentax is put to shame by other marques for specific purposes.
But whatever camera we choose, it will do some things brilliantly and some things less so. Part of the skill in photography is finding a way to make it work, unless of course we are lucky to be able to afford a different camera for different applications.
Focusing is something else. I've used a lot of cameras in the past couple of years in particular and for general purpose use there is little to choose between them. Without mentioning names, I have had very expensive camera bodies flumoxed by situations that would have been a breeze with Pentax. Likewise, I am sure that there are situations where Pentax is put to shame by other marques for specific purposes.
But whatever camera we choose, it will do some things brilliantly and some things less so. Part of the skill in photography is finding a way to make it work, unless of course we are lucky to be able to afford a different camera for different applications.
Best regards, John
Posted 02/02/2017 - 11:45 - Helpful Comment
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This is always a contentious issue to discuss and there will always be those for whom the autofocus is great and those for whom the autofocus is not up to par.
For me, for some of the things I like to shoot, in the style that I like doing it, it most definitely is not up to par.
High performance focussing including tracking and predictive focussing does involve several things, lenses that are fast to move the focussing rack (other lenses are twice as fast as Pentax here), 'fast lenses' i.e. a 300mm F2.8 lets in twice as much light to the focussing unit as a 300mm F4 does (a lot of these lenses are not available in Pentax mount), a lot of focussing points for tracking, distance measuring for predictive and good algorithms in the cameras etc. etc.
Having gone through every flagship Pentax DSLR and nearly every recent lens, including the K-1 & 150-450mm, I finally realised that what was holding me back from getting some of the shots I wanted to get, was my kit.
The trick is to get the right tool for the job.
The right tool for action wildlife photography, for the way I shoot, is not my Pentax gear, it's why I now have a D500 & 400mm F2.8 VR, also a lens that's just not available on Pentax mount.
The problem with these discussions is that everyone seems to want one camera to do everything. This is just not possible. My wife's Smart car can't carry 7 people, my 3.5 V6 Espace can't do 60 MPG, our camper van is the only vehicle we have that has a double bed, toilet, fridge and kitchen sink!
Within 5 minutes of first using my new kit I was getting shots that I just could not get with my existing Pentax gear. It is that simple. Sometimes my K-3 just could not keep simple things in focus and we're talking people walking towards you or ducks swimming towards you here.
Yes, technique does play a part, but like in the car analogy above, it's going to be more difficult with a tool that's not designed for purpose. Use a screwdriver for a screw, a hammer for a nail etc.
The issue with competing systems versus Pentax is that they are more complete systems so more often than not there is an option for everything. There are more camera options and more lens options. I can't just go out and buy a D500 spec camera or a 400mm F2.8 with a K-mount, if I could I would.
The issue I have now is that I can't put my K-1 on the 400mm and I can't put my 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 on the D500. Having 2 systems has solved one problem but created another, I now need 2 sets of lenses and I can see that I might end up all in with Nikon at some point and I don't even like it that much, the trouble is it does get me results that my existing kit does not.
So, in answer to the original post, yes the K-1 is awesome, it's dynamic range and image quality is better than any Canon, no, it's not the best at focussing speed and tracking, please do test one thoroughly before you buy one to see if that is an issue for you. If you can wait, spend some time at the Photography Show in March on the Pentax stand, either way, it will be time well spent.
For me, for some of the things I like to shoot, in the style that I like doing it, it most definitely is not up to par.
High performance focussing including tracking and predictive focussing does involve several things, lenses that are fast to move the focussing rack (other lenses are twice as fast as Pentax here), 'fast lenses' i.e. a 300mm F2.8 lets in twice as much light to the focussing unit as a 300mm F4 does (a lot of these lenses are not available in Pentax mount), a lot of focussing points for tracking, distance measuring for predictive and good algorithms in the cameras etc. etc.
Having gone through every flagship Pentax DSLR and nearly every recent lens, including the K-1 & 150-450mm, I finally realised that what was holding me back from getting some of the shots I wanted to get, was my kit.
The trick is to get the right tool for the job.
The right tool for action wildlife photography, for the way I shoot, is not my Pentax gear, it's why I now have a D500 & 400mm F2.8 VR, also a lens that's just not available on Pentax mount.
The problem with these discussions is that everyone seems to want one camera to do everything. This is just not possible. My wife's Smart car can't carry 7 people, my 3.5 V6 Espace can't do 60 MPG, our camper van is the only vehicle we have that has a double bed, toilet, fridge and kitchen sink!
Within 5 minutes of first using my new kit I was getting shots that I just could not get with my existing Pentax gear. It is that simple. Sometimes my K-3 just could not keep simple things in focus and we're talking people walking towards you or ducks swimming towards you here.
Yes, technique does play a part, but like in the car analogy above, it's going to be more difficult with a tool that's not designed for purpose. Use a screwdriver for a screw, a hammer for a nail etc.
The issue with competing systems versus Pentax is that they are more complete systems so more often than not there is an option for everything. There are more camera options and more lens options. I can't just go out and buy a D500 spec camera or a 400mm F2.8 with a K-mount, if I could I would.
The issue I have now is that I can't put my K-1 on the 400mm and I can't put my 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 f2.8 on the D500. Having 2 systems has solved one problem but created another, I now need 2 sets of lenses and I can see that I might end up all in with Nikon at some point and I don't even like it that much, the trouble is it does get me results that my existing kit does not.
So, in answer to the original post, yes the K-1 is awesome, it's dynamic range and image quality is better than any Canon, no, it's not the best at focussing speed and tracking, please do test one thoroughly before you buy one to see if that is an issue for you. If you can wait, spend some time at the Photography Show in March on the Pentax stand, either way, it will be time well spent.
Posted 03/02/2017 - 17:53
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Thanks for all the input guys.
Well to sum things up a little, i'm going to wait a while before i get the K1, at the moment i'm probably going to get a k3ii with either a 300 f2.8 prime (sigma) , or the 150-450 pentax as my jet/wildlife lens.
I'm holding off on the K1 primarily because of the price ( it's allot of money for where i am with my budget right now), and the fact that if i get on with the system then a year or so down the road i'm sure Pentax will be releasing a whole load of new stuff, and maybe by then a K1 ii or something.
I managed to get to play with a K3 today, and it wasn't the experience i was expecting. As said in previous posts, it fitted well in the hand, the build was solid (i like the weather proofing ) , and the layout not too uncommon. The focusing wasn't anywhere near as dire as i had dreaded, in fact i would say it was similar to a Canon 40D.
So now to save for a while, and i will let you know how i'm getting on.
Thanks for all your inputs, you've been a great help !
Well to sum things up a little, i'm going to wait a while before i get the K1, at the moment i'm probably going to get a k3ii with either a 300 f2.8 prime (sigma) , or the 150-450 pentax as my jet/wildlife lens.
I'm holding off on the K1 primarily because of the price ( it's allot of money for where i am with my budget right now), and the fact that if i get on with the system then a year or so down the road i'm sure Pentax will be releasing a whole load of new stuff, and maybe by then a K1 ii or something.
I managed to get to play with a K3 today, and it wasn't the experience i was expecting. As said in previous posts, it fitted well in the hand, the build was solid (i like the weather proofing ) , and the layout not too uncommon. The focusing wasn't anywhere near as dire as i had dreaded, in fact i would say it was similar to a Canon 40D.
So now to save for a while, and i will let you know how i'm getting on.
Thanks for all your inputs, you've been a great help !
Posted 03/02/2017 - 19:20
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Recent Pentax's can certainly be faster focussing than a 40D, that's quite an old camera now.
Anyhow, pleased you made the time to go and see and were surprised the experience wasn't so bad as feared!
Anyhow, pleased you made the time to go and see and were surprised the experience wasn't so bad as feared!
John K
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1229 posts
11 years
I agree Nigel.