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280T camera compatibility question.

spbatt
Posted 19/04/2004 - 14:53 Link
Hello group,

Does anyone know if a 280T flash will be ok to use with a) an *ist D, b) an LX and c) a Super A (the 3 camera bodies I am most attached to).

I am hoping that I can use it without restictions on new and old Pentax's - if anyone can offer advice then many thanks.

spbatt
Kim C
Posted 19/04/2004 - 15:56 Link
Hi,
The 280T is just about custom made for the Super A and LX and has full functionality including OTF flash metering. I believe it will work with the *istD but it won't give you the features of the FTZ series. It certainly wrks with my sons *ist. If you are looking for one gun to do everything, one of the FTZ might be better and they will give all the functions of the T series with the MF cameras.
regards
Kim
George Lazarette
Posted 21/04/2004 - 01:19 Link
The "digital" flashes don't work properly with earlier camera bodies. The 280 gun has its own sensor and will work well with any body, either on the hotshoe or remotely with a slave trigger.

See: http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/technology/hot-shoe/index.html
Kim C
Posted 21/04/2004 - 08:51 Link
Hi George,
I beg to differ, I have used the 400FTZ quite sucessfully with both my LX and Super A. All the dedicated functions don't work such as the zoom synch, trailing curtain but the basic auto flash and manual modes work fine so it has the same functionallity of the T series. I started to use it (or a Sigma equivalent) in preference to the AF280T as they saved taking the AFT and AFW converters. The one thing which doesn't work well is multiple flash setups. The "T" series (200,280 and 400) mix and match very well but the FTZ won't work alongside them.

Regards
Kim
George Lazarette
Posted 21/04/2004 - 12:31 Link
Let me expand a bit on that.

The digital guns don't have a sensor of their own, so can't be used off-camera unless you use the 5p setup, which requires expensive cords and adaptors.

On older bodies you lose all the fancy tricks which is what makes these units expensive. You might just as well use an old unbranded gun at a fraction of the price.

The analogue flashes, however, have their own light sensors, so you can mount them off-camera with a cheap slave trigger. This means no less functionality and greater flexibility at much lower cost.

The AF280T will give TTL flash on all the cameras mentioned, and can be used off-camera in auto mode with a slave trigger.

It doesn't have all the intended functionality when mounted on or connected to a *ist D, but many people seem to find that the digital flashes don't work properly with the *ist D anyway, so probably no loss there.

I certainly can't get reliable TTL exposures on my *ist D using the AF400FTZ or the AF240FT. I get the best results with an old, cheap AF240Z in program mode.

Kim, if you've managed to crack the *ist D digital flash problem, what's the secret?

George
spbatt
Posted 21/04/2004 - 13:22 Link
Thanks George and Kim, I will experiment with the 280T. I do also have a 240Z so I will compare them on my *ist D and let the group know how the results fare for me.

The issue of using older/newer flashes on old and new cameras seems to be as clear as mud - maybe having separate flashes is necessary for now (?).

Regards,
Simon (spbatt)
Kim C
Posted 21/04/2004 - 16:24 Link
Hi George,
I wish I could justify the expense of an *istD to play with! I still use film for all my serious work and about 3 years ago managed to pick up a Minolts RD3000 with a complete set of Vectis lenses cheaply for PC work.

My son borrowed the 280T for his *ist, that worked and I had been told it works with the D. This would agree that with your comment. Other than that I haven't got any magic answers for the D.

This is only conjecture but I suspect the reason there are problems with 400FTZ and 240FT is the extra cable or connection. Prior to this all the connections were analogue and relatively simple. This conecction is digital and has to pass info both ways. If this is the case and the TTL connection is interfereing with the digital lead, it would explain why a "T" or a "Z" works but not an "FT" on the D. As an aside, one of the best things about Pentax has always been it's backward compatibility. It would appear that Pentax are now finding this too difficult or are abandoning it for cost reasons. It started with the crippled mounts and now seems to have spread to flashguns. Oh well that's progress for you
George Lazarette
Posted 21/04/2004 - 23:06 Link
Kim,

Theproblems with flash on the *ist D happen when the gun is mounted on the camera, as well as off it. There have been numerous threads on this issue on various message boards.

I agree that backward compatibility is a major strength of the Pentax system, and a source of loyalty to the brand. However, the marketplace is very cut-throat, and I don't blame them for abandoning compatibility with older lenses on their cheaper cameras, so long as they retain it on the expensive ones. They've now made the D compatible with old lenses, which is great.

With flashes, there was a technological shift, but in fact any body will work with any non-digital flash. I wouldn't want Pentax to be restrained from offering new features because an old camera couldn't use them.
Kim C
Posted 22/04/2004 - 16:03 Link
Hi George,

I fully take your point about market forces and in particular where they relate to the entry level cameras. However, the D is hardly one of the cheaper cameras! As you say, a software patch has solved the problem with the older lenses. As to the flash, I agree with you that you should not avoid new features just to stay compatible with all guns. However, whilst I might expect a problem with say the 200S, a budget gun, I wouldn't expect it with the 400FTZ. This is hardly old or cheap. It may be that Pentax will develop a patch in the way they did with the lenses to sort it but if not, I do think it is a retrograde step if it is only compatible with the 360FGZ which, however nice it is, is a lot of money if you are already heavily into AF Pentax.
George Lazarette
Posted 22/04/2004 - 23:08 Link
Kim,
I don't have a 360FGZ, but others who do also report problems when using it with the *ist D. I understand that Nikon and Canon owners are having similar problems with some flash/digicam combinations.
This is definitely a *ist D failure, not a problem of one or more specific flash guns. All the digital flash guns are meant to work the same way, and be compatible with each other, as far as specific features allow.
The D manual mentions both the 400FTZ and 240FT guns, and says they are compatible with the camera.
My advice to anyone with a *ist D is to hold off investing in expensive digital flash guns until a solution is forthcoming. In the meantime, the AF240Z seems to work well, and I would expect the AF280T to do so as well, at least in non-TTL mode.
Regards
George
MattMatic
Posted 23/04/2004 - 06:57 Link
George,

Quote:

My advice to anyone with a *ist D is to hold off investing in expensive digital flash guns until a solution is forthcoming.

I am sorry, but I don't agree.

I bought the AF360FGZ for my Z1, and it is fantastic. Now having the *istD and the AF360FGZ I find it is the best camera/flash combination I have ever had. The features of the AF360 are really formidable.

Yes, some situations give peculiar results and this can be annoying. But then having the instant review means you at least know this straight away. IMO it is partly lens related too, and since using Pentax SMC-F primes I have had no problems at all! Tethered flash superb, wireless flash very useful, bounce and direct (with Stofen Omnibounce) beautiful.

I have never regretted the AF360FGZ, and would seriously consider another

Matt
http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)
George Lazarette
Posted 23/04/2004 - 12:00 Link
Matt,

I am not knocking the 360 per se, and it seems to work perfectly with the film bodies. However, even you concede that it gives "peculiar" results with the *ist D in some situations.

I know that instant preview is a great help, but, particularly if photographing people, one can't always replace a lost shot. My own experiences have been dire, but I have mainly M lenses, and it might be that the *ist D uses the chip in the Pentax AF lenses in some way, and therefore only works well with these lenses. It is certainly a possible explanation, and one that makes a lot of sense.

I shall do some more experimentation. Thanks for giving me a promising lead.
MattMatic
Posted 23/04/2004 - 12:39 Link
George,

I know
I found the AF360 on the Z1 would occassionally give me dud results - but then I'd pushed it too far or confused it. However, getting back the slides much later I could never work it out. I'd rather have it the *istD way

I agree there's something a little 'odd' about the *istD's P-TTL flash (and I think it is the P-TTL that's the problem). Other users have commented that you get probs when there is too much white in the scene. To my mind it looks as though one sensor is doing the P-TTL preflash measurement, but getting it wrong. My own theory is colour balance. Different lenses produce very different colouring (as I found out). My Tokinas all gave very different results to the Pentax 28-70/f4 that I had at the time. Looking at the histograms in PS showed the variance in the RGB channels.

Perhaps the preflash sensor is more sensitive to red (or even IR) than the CCD, and fools the camera into thinking the preflash was brighter than it was. Just a thought

I think I'll have to go back and try my AF360 tests again with the SMC-F primes.... (but as my circumstantial evidence suggests I have had beautiful results with them and the AF360)

Matt
http://www.mattmatic.co.uk
(For gallery, tips and links)
Anonymous
Posted 20/03/2005 - 20:18 Link
I have a 280T that I originally bought to use with my (then) Super A and had never parted with it. I am lucky enough to now have an ist* DS (jolly nice it is, too) and Was pleasantly surprised to find they seem to work together OK, including off-camera.
George Lazarette
Posted 21/03/2005 - 01:20 Link
As far as I can see, the older the flash, the better it works.

G

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