Why is there so many K3 for sale


McGregNi

Link Posted 07/10/2016 - 21:19
I've had a total of one camera since I came to the Pentax brand 4 and a half years ago ....a gearhead?

The things I say I value most in a camera are all solid, practical aids to photography and efficiency when taking photos. Some of them have been part of high end SLR bodies since will before the digital era.

Of course I'm realistic .... If I needed to shoot loads of low light indoor events where flash was impossible then of course I would be looking at sensors with much better ISO performance, so its about how we use our carers as well.

I've used the flash vs high ISO example before, but whilst not directly about a cameras capabilities it does hear a similarity ....I have not had such a high need for better ISO performance because I enjoy 're-lighting' scenes and changing the exposure balances with flash. I believe this gives much better results and 'makes' images that a camera with great high ISO performance alone could not. So I've spent money on flash things. Of course, when I do upgrade then of course the quality will improve across the board, I look forward to that, but when money is tight then I see the real significant gains to come from things other than just a sensor improvement.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 07/10/2016 - 21:23

andrewk

Link Posted 07/10/2016 - 21:42
McGregNi wrote:
I've had a total of one camera since I came to the Pentax brand 4 and a half years ago ....a gearhead?

If the gear itself is more important to you than its output? Yes, I think that makes you a gear head.

Andrew
Flickr photostream

McGregNi

Link Posted 07/10/2016 - 21:47
Then you misunderstand what I'm saying. The things I value in a camera, plus the accessory items that work together with it, all have an impact on image quality by giving a better experience, more efficiency/quicker operation, better handling etc. Those things add tangibly to image quality.

Image quality is not solely a result of sensor design and performance, there are many other factors that combine to produce an image of a particular technical quality.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 07/10/2016 - 21:54

andrewk

Link Posted 07/10/2016 - 22:12
Of course, yes, pixie dust. Sorry, I forgot about that.

Andrew
Flickr photostream

McGregNi

Link Posted 07/10/2016 - 22:43
We can call it that if you like ......I do find your image comparisons interesting of course. But really, there are many other important things I would look at in comparing cameras and making an upgrade choice, and some may even be more important than sensor performance data and detailed analysis of the output.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

andrewk

Link Posted 07/10/2016 - 23:26
My first Pentax DSLR was a K200D that I bought in 2008. Around 4 years ago, I bought a K30, mainly because its high ISO performance is about 2 stops better than the K200D. It's a fine camera and I have enjoyed using it.

Several moons back, I shot a RatPack gig at Oldham's Coliseum theatre and realised that I could have done a lot better with a camera having even better high ISO performance. At the time, there were rumours of a FF camera, but the K3 just didn't seem to offer a significant Improvement.

Although I would love one, a K1, kit lens and 150-450 would set me back about 4k. As an amateur, that doesn't make too much sense, irrespective of whether I could afford to buy one.

The K70's high ISO performance seems to be maybe a stop worse than that of the K1 - but much better than my K30 - so it has to be an option, especially as I would not need to lay out for any new lenses. If a K3 Mk III existed, I would probably buy one of those - but it doesn't - and, so far as I can see, there are no other sensible options.

Andrew
Flickr photostream
Last Edited by andrewk on 07/10/2016 - 23:35

McGregNi

Link Posted 08/10/2016 - 10:52
That seems to bring us back full circle, to where I said that the K70 clearly provides great value access to very good, modern sensor technology. From DXO reports I've seen, the K1 offers an approximate 1 to 1.5 stop gain across the ISO range, up to 12,800, over the K5 .... And this of course comes with vastly higher resolution as well. If the K70, as you imply, falls closely into this performance bracket as well, then that is obviously impressive ... Plus you're still getting a good resolution gain as well. I can agree with you and appreciate that this is a very tempting route into such good performance if your photographic needs will benefit from that (eg your low light concerts).

So no disagreement there. What I cannot discount are the important (as see it) additional camera features and characteristics that are included on the 'flagship' models, as I believe they contribute to the overall potential for capturing good quality images (and I agree with the points made earlier by Bill in that respect). I would prefer to retain those features as present on my K7 rather than lose them in a move to something like the K70, even though I understand that the sensor is hugely better ..... Is that really a very strange and crazy attitude to hold?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

andrewk

Link Posted 08/10/2016 - 13:02
Strange & crazy - no, but it does suggest that your priorities are different.

In my book, a camera's sole purpose is to produce output and it is that output that I try to judge when making a purchasing decision. I care little for how many bells and whistles it has.

Having said that, while cost has to play some part in the decision, if I have a shortlist of two with similar output, I would generally tend towards the item that seems to be better constructed. I guess that the K70 and the (not yet even rumoured) K3 Mk III would be likely to have similar output and that could affect my decision.

One question I am pondering about is whether I really need a 450mm FF equiv lens. Although I use a 55-300mm on the K30, I only rarely use it at 300mm. As I have a golden oldie 70-210mm and a 300mm prime (both MF), maybe I could get by without a modern long kens - so, maybe the K1 should still be on my shortlist.

Mmmm ......

Andrew
(Aka confused of Oldham)
Flickr photostream

McGregNi

Link Posted 08/10/2016 - 14:09
I think the priorities are different, from what you say .... If I was a professional photographer, then most definitely the output would be the main aim, and I would simply be choosing the best tools that would give the best output, depending on the style of images and conditions I worked in (eg weddings, sports, news, studio etc) .

But I'm an unpaid enthusiast photographer .... in fact I realise that my aim is not to produce the highest technical output from a sensor, within the bounds of what I can afford. I have very different aims, which is to enjoy the activity, to gain satisfaction and pleasure from pursuing the various different aspects of photography, be that using a camera, setting up flashes and related equipment, choosing lenses, working on processing on the computer, sharing photos and talking about it all with people on the forums. It is to get the most out of the total activity, encompassing all those aspects, that I aim for. The camera is a central part of it of course, and so to enjoy the photo capture part of it, for me, means having all the 'bells and whistles' (as you put it) and making them work to improve the actual quality of image capture.

I'm working to a very small budget of course, and if I could have it then I'd love a K1 and the better IQ that would bring.

Regarding your telephoto issue for FF .... I don't think you'd need that extra long focal length, so long as you are content to crop, to take advantage of that resolution you'd have there. Just expect to feel short changed because things will look smaller through the viewfinder ... they're not of course, its just an optical illusion.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

andrewk

Link Posted 08/10/2016 - 15:51
How are you finding the 28-105mm? Is it living up to your expectations & hopes?

Andrew
Flickr photostream

McGregNi

Link Posted 08/10/2016 - 16:00
Yes, it really is, in fact it has exceeded them both for image quality and the physical aspects (build, handling, autofocus) .... It's great, the best thing I could have bought for the 399.00. If you didn't see these shots take a look at this thread .....
http://www.thepentaxforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3309
I have never bought an aps-c lens since getting the DA 18-55 with my camera. Now I am feeling quite well prepared for a move to full frame one day ..... See, I actually am concerned with sensor output quality
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver

andrewk

Link Posted 08/10/2016 - 16:49
If I end up with a K1, that lens does seem like a 'must have'. I think, maybe, I should consider the Samyang 14mm f/2.8 too, especially if I decide to stick with APS-C.

Andrew
Flickr photostream

MrB

Link Posted 08/10/2016 - 18:35
Nigel, I can understand everything you have written in this thread, and I tend to agree with you. What I don't understand is, bearing in mind that it would seem to me that your real priority is your growing family, why you would even think of spending on a K-1, when you could have a K-3 right now for one third of the price. The latter would give you all the things you appreciate in your K-7, plus a great deal more that would enhance your photo capture experience and enjoyment, including a more capable and higher resolution sensor that I guess would benefit your types of photography. Just my thoughts, of course.

Cheers.
Philip

McGregNi

Link Posted 10/10/2016 - 15:44
Thanks Philip, I'm glad to hear of some agreement with my attitude to it all

You make a strong point of course, it's been said to me before about the K5 and K5II as well .... Why don't I? It must be sheer stubbornness ! There's a good bit of that of course, plus the need to extract the absolute maximum out of the K7, which was a 'flagship' model and works perfectly. I see the money I've spent instead on flash gear and the new D FA 28-105 zoom as offering overall more ' bang per buck' in tangible improvements to my photography. Now I'm kind of set on full frame in the future ..... Lets see what happen to aps-c camera prices once the K1 beds in even more. ....
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 10/10/2016 - 15:46
Add a Comment
You must be registered or logged-in to comment.