"What goes round, comes around" - it must be F8


wvbarnes

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 11:02
DaveHolmes wrote:
I use Tav mode a lot too... Very good in low light with the FA35... I just whack it on f3.2 at 1/80 and its bang on for handheld lowlight snapshots...

Hi Dave, slightly off topic but how good is the FA35? Microglobe have them for 308 new still and I'm tempted. Meanwhile away to Cyprus Sunday so I can F8 about to my hearts content with my DA15 Ltd

DaveHolmes

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 13:14
wvbarnes wrote:
DaveHolmes wrote:
I use Tav mode a lot too... Very good in low light with the FA35... I just whack it on f3.2 at 1/80 and its bang on for handheld lowlight snapshots...

Hi Dave, slightly off topic but how good is the FA35? Microglobe have them for 308 new still and I'm tempted. Meanwhile away to Cyprus Sunday so I can F8 about to my hearts content with my DA15 Ltd

My best and most used lens... It'd take a FA31-Ltd to make me get rid (and there is a plan in motion...) Apparently the DA35-2.4 is built on the same optic and is much cheaper but I kinda like the FA's myself...

Lots of reviews on't'other forum...
........................................................................
Digital:
Pentax K5- Vivitar 19mm 3.8; FA35mm f2; D-Xenon 100mm macro f2.8; DA50-200mm WR...
Flash:
Yongnuo YN-560; Vivitar 285HV; Cactus V4 triggers...
Film:
Pentax-MX & M50mm f1.4; Spottie & 55mm f1.8; MG & M40mm 2.8...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/daveholmesphotos/

MrB

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 19:55
Most of the time my K-5 is set to P-Mode with the MTF Program Line, in one of the saved User Modes. Compared to some other makes, the Pentax P-Mode seems more versatile as, although when set in this way it gives an exposure set up around the lens sweet spot MTF aperture, it still allows the user to control the ISO value, shutter speed (front dial) and aperture (rear dial). After any user alterations, pressing the Green Button returns the exposure settings to those suggested by the MTF Program Line. I think the camera also uses the selected Program Line when the Green Button is pressed in M-Mode.

Philip

PeterKR

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 19:56
wvbarnes wrote:
Hi all,

We were taught to set our manual film cameras to F8 at 1/125th set at about 20 feet for a 100 ISO film as this meant if you used the camera in a hurry out of the 'ever ready' case you would likely get a reasonable shot.

So F8 has is place but that's all.

That's the point I was trying to make when I posted this thread.

Just like Bill, I used a 'basic setting' in readiness for any shot.
I feel that still applies with digitals and the kit lenses and similar, leaving the camera on f/8 'at the ready' means you can catch a fleeting moment.

However, when time permits, and you have a suitable lens, then the aperture can be selected to match the desired DOF etc.

I suppose it's my engineering background that leads me to associate IQ with sharpness but I fully agree that PICTURE quality is how well the result matches up to the photographers expectations and how it is received by others !

As I said, 'playing around is half the fun' and I also believe in the saying 'the man who never made a mistake, never made anything !'

Meanwhile, my grateful thanks for all your contributions.

Peter

Smeggypants

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 21:35
Surely it would be better to leave an automatic digital camera on it's "point an shoot" mode to capture fleeting moments?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

PeterKR

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 22:44
Smeggypants wrote:
Surely it would be better to leave an automatic digital camera on it's "point an shoot" mode to capture fleeting moments?

Exactly !

That is what I always did in the past, but found that the DAL 18-55 was sometimes giving me soft results.

I therefore posted an earlier thread about the quality of this lens and some very experienced members of this forum insisted that this IS a good lens providing it is stopped down to around f/8 !

I therefore recently spent an afternoon with the DAL 18-55 on the K-r on Av and f/8 (with ISO on Auto 200-800) so that the K-r WAS effectly in 'point & shoot mode' and, guess what, the results WERE better.

I only had to set the aperture to f/8 once and it stayed on that setting even though the camera was turned off & on several times. This meant that I had all the benefits of speed I would have got from 'P' but the choice of aperture as well.

As I said before, I'm always willing to learn from my mistakes but the fun comes from trying things differently. If you leave the camera on 'P' all the time you never learn anything and therefore never make improvements ?

Any other tips you can pass on will be much appreciated.

Peter

Mannesty

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 22:53
I have never understood why people buy expensive and very capable cameras, and leave them in what I used to call AFE mode, Auto F'ing Everything.

All it tells me is that these people are only interested in snapping, and a much cheaper and pocket-able Point 'n Shoot camera would do just as well for them. Perhaps posing factor comes into it a little too.

I would find it very difficult to believe that anybody who has taken the trouble to learn, and understand, even the basics of photography, would use AFE mode on a camera that is capable of so much more.
Peter E Smith

My flickr Photostream

johnha

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 22:56
johnwhit wrote:
McGregNi wrote:

Our Cameras have the MTF program line function (when shooting in P), to
automatically aim for the optimal aperture (on DA lenses only)

IIRC FA lenses do as well.

John

The Z-1 certainly supported it with FA lenses.
PPG Flickr

davidstorm

Link Posted 12/04/2013 - 22:58
I think the key is to learn intimately the qualities of your camera(s) and lenses, so that when you use them you instinctively know what settings to dial in.

A lot of my landscapes are at F6.3 or F7.1, not because I need the extra light transmission, but because I think they look better at these apertures (I'm talking shots mainly with the DA 16-45 here and latterly with the DA 17-70). I will use narrower apertures only when something in the very close foreground requires critically sharp focus.

For 'people' shots, F2.8 or F3.5 is the norm. For AF lenses, the wider the better, for MF lenses I choose a slightly narrower aperture to give a little more focussing latitude whilst still retaining the out of focus backgrounds and nice bokeh.

I never set my camera on P mode, unless I am having to shoot very quickly in constantly variable conditions (like certain times at a wedding for example). I never set it and leave it on F8 either.

This probably won't be true for everyone, but I'm sure the best shooters on here will be able to visualise quite accurately what an image will look like, given the settings being used, before the shutter is pressed. This only comes with practice and experience, but is the key to taking great pictures IMO. If you don't have this skill, you are trusting to luck to a large extent.

Regards
David
My Website http://imagesbydavidstorm.foliopic.com

Flickr

Some cameras, some lenses, some bits 'n' bobs

StephenHampshire

Link Posted 13/04/2013 - 00:02
McGregNi wrote:
Reagarding Tav mode (where the camera sets ISO following user set Av & Tv), this is obviously useful when a particular aperture (say for quality purposes) and shutter speed (say for movement depiction) are needed - this would be a rare occaision I hazard to suggest
But surely we should be cautious in this mode, as even with our modern K5s the variation in quality as the ISO shoots up is surely greater than would be seen if the aperture were to open up instead ?? (Smeggy, this is a hint for you to post the 'Rasta Alien' image again)

At least the lesser experienced of us should be wary of introducing noise into our shots that may be missed on the LCD, but be disappointing when printed out. Is it not good advice to suggest that we should aim to keep ISO's as low as practical in the available light, in the interests of the best quality?

I shoot large moving objects (trains and horses) routinely. TAV is my most used mode. T allows me to prevent motion blur ( or use a slow speed for panning) and A allows me to choose a good aperture for DoF control and/or optimum lens resolution. I'm not worried about ISO most of the time as long as I don't bottom out, leading to overexposure and BLOWN HIGLIGHTS (the curse of steam photographers)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/arleimages/8467483297/in/photostream
Everything Changes
http://www.flickr.com/photos/arleimages/

Smeggypants

Link Posted 13/04/2013 - 00:09
Mannesty wrote:
I have never understood why people buy expensive and very capable cameras, and leave them in what I used to call AFE mode, Auto F'ing Everything.

All it tells me is that these people are only interested in snapping, and a much cheaper and pocket-able Point 'n Shoot camera would do just as well for them. Perhaps posing factor comes into it a little too.

I would find it very difficult to believe that anybody who has taken the trouble to learn, and understand, even the basics of photography, would use AFE mode on a camera that is capable of so much more.

Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting leaving it on Point and shoot mode all the time while actually using it. I was referring to a mode to leave it on while switched off so that if a fleeting moment happens you can just switch the camera on and get the shot without having to worry about setting any parameters.
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

Smeggypants

Link Posted 13/04/2013 - 00:21
PeterKR wrote:
If you leave the camera on 'P' all the time you never learn anything and therefore never make improvements ?

and similarly if you leave it on F8


Quote:

Any other tips you can pass on will be much appreciated.

Peter

Yes forget this F8 stuff, use TAv mode, take loads of pics at varying DOFs and shutter speeds and enjoy the diversity of images you'll get. you'll also gain valuable feedback as to what settings work with what type of scenes

If you stick to F8 or set the aperture of the lens with priority to squeezing the max resolution of of the lens you'll simply miss out on an awful lot of great shots.

Abuse your settings sometimes

Here's one I took on the tube with a shutter speed ( 1/25s ) that you'd normally consider too low for the movement down there, but it worked ...

click on it for decent size


[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283
Last Edited by Smeggypants on 13/04/2013 - 00:22

petrochemist

Link Posted 13/04/2013 - 09:01
Smeggypants wrote:

Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting leaving it on Point and shoot mode all the time while actually using it. I was referring to a mode to leave it on while switched off so that if a fleeting moment happens you can just switch the camera on and get the shot without having to worry about setting any parameters.

Exactly how I prefer to work. In P mode it just takes a quick flick of one of the wheels to control Aperture/exposure. Yet it's still available for grab shots.

IMO the optimal sharpness of a lens is only really of interest if you are doing focus stacking. Aperture has a massive effect on DOF, which in turn drastically changes the image. It can't always be used at the best setting for DOF due to it's effect on shutter speed - ISO has it's limits & unfortunately they're lower on my K7 than the K5...
Mike
.
Pentax:K7, K100D, DA18-55, DA10-17, DA55-300, DA50-200, F100-300, F50, DA35 AL, 4* M50, 2* M135, Helicoid extension, Tak 300 f4 (& 6 film bodies)
3rd Party: Bigmos (Sigma 150-500mm OS HSM),2* 28mm, 100mm macro, 28-200 zoom, 35-80 zoom, 80-200 zoom, 80-210 zoom, 300mm M42, 600 mirror, 1000-4000 scope, 50mm M42, enlarger lenses, micro 4/3 cameras with various PK mounts, Zenit E...
Far to many tele-converters, adapters, project parts & extension tubes etc.

.[size=11:].Flickr WPF Panoramio

PeterKR

Link Posted 13/04/2013 - 10:01
Quote:

Any other tips you can pass on will be much appreciated.

Peter

Quote:

Yes forget this F8 stuff, use TAv mode, take loads of pics at varying DOFs and shutter speeds and enjoy the diversity of images you'll get. you'll also gain valuable feedback as to what settings work with what type of scenes

Many thanks, Smeggy.

However, the K-r has Av, Tv and M but not TAv ?

On the basis of 'walking before running' I'm experimenting with Av mode at present.

Should I go 'whole hog' and try 'M' ?

Thanks again
Peter

davidstorm

Link Posted 13/04/2013 - 10:29
That one in the underground is a great shot Smeggy, a good example of using a wide aperture to best advantage.

Cheers
David
My Website http://imagesbydavidstorm.foliopic.com

Flickr

Some cameras, some lenses, some bits 'n' bobs
Last Edited by davidstorm on 13/04/2013 - 10:29
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