Upgrade to K5IIs from K5 now or wait for something better?


miles500

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 09:53
I posted a similar question on the DPR forum and got mixed responses. Some people feel that there is no point and I should wait for the next significant upgrade and some ( who have made the change) think that the upgrade is well worth it. The current rebate is a small incentive. No-one knows when the next APS-C model will come out - it could be as early as the autumn or it might not be until next year or even later. It would seem logical to expect some sort of response to the Nikon 7100, but on the other hand maybe the KIIs is intended to be the Pentax APS-C flagship for the next year or so.

My question is whether those who have upgraded see a real difference in AF and resolution or not.

I have four Ltds ( 15, 21 , 35 and 70) which I hope would be good enough to exploit the capabilities of the K5IIs, but on the other hand even allowing for pX and rebate it will still cost me 500+.

Of course there is always another way of looking at things. None of us is getting any younger and you can wait and wait for something that never appears to come, or you can shell out and enjoy and shell out again whenever the next significant upgrade appears - what the hell - it is only money!!
Miles

Fletcher8

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 10:27
Miles, to be honest only you can determine if the upgrade is worth it when you have had the benefit of comparing the original K5 to the K5lls. However, I can provide you with my experience of the K5lls since I upgraded.

The image quality is without a doubt better than the original K5, the images from the K5lls are sharper, cleaner and just have more impact. I use my K5lls for a wide spectrum of photography and I do a lot of photography that involves action be it, equine, kayaking or skiing. Depending on what I am aiming to capture I use different focusing techniques, I used to prefer pre focusing, but the continuous focusing is in my opinion a big improvement from the original K5. I have started using the continuous focus more and more, it's obviously nothing like a Nikon D4 or Canon 1DX, but I am getting a better keep rate than the original K5. I personally think the K5lls is what and how the K5 should have been when it was first introduced, its a very versatile camera and unless you are willing to pay 2500 upwards I don't think you will find a better camera regardless of brand.

My wife and I now have 3 K5lls cameras and they are doing what I need, If I start to do more weddings and Pentax release a FF camera, I will buy one, as for action photography APS-C works very well for me personally.

As to you upgrade decision, if you are concerned about a new body just wait until September, if Pentax are about to release a new APS-C body I think it will come to light by then. At the end of the day, new cameras will always be released, and they will no doubt improve over previous models, but I think the K5lls will keep your interest and serve your needs for at least another two years.

You could give SRS a bell and see if they would rent you a K5lls and then knock of the fee if you buy one, long shot I know, but it could answer your question and save you money.

If you are interested in what the K5lls can capture take a look at our Chatsworth Horse trials Images at www.k2photographic.com

Regards Fletcher8
Fletcher8.

Papa_Lazarou

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 10:34
I recently upgraded to the IIS from the Classic K-5 and feel it was worth it. The IIS AF is more confident and vastly better in poor light. It will focus in rooms so dark you can barely see! Image quality is noticeably sharper and none of my lenses now require any micro AF adjustment. With my previous K-5 I couldn't get my FA 77 Ltd to focus spot on at +10 on the adjustment scale. It's fine on the IIS.

I suppose I could've waited for the next APS-C model (K3?), but what if that uses a different body that I don't like? I love the handling of the K-7/K-5 body and wanted to stay with it. Anyway a big thumbs up for the K-5 IIS from me.
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Last Edited by Papa_Lazarou on 22/05/2013 - 10:37

Pentaxophile

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 10:39
For an amateur I'd say it's probably not worth it - that money could be better spent on lenses and accessories which really will improve your photography, not to mention trips.

If you are a pro or semi-pro, the increase in keepers from the improved AF may well make sense however.
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aliengrove

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 10:53
I'm still vacillating over whether to get a K5iis now or wait for the next generation camera, hopefully full-frame. The one improvement I want over all others is low-light capability (in terms of noise, not AF); has anyone noticed any significant improvement in this?
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fritzthedog

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 10:54
Miles

I tend to consider this question slightly differently. I am convinced from everything I have read that I would notice a difference if I upgraded my 5 to 5IIs.

So - I should upgrade immediately? even if money were no object - probably not.

I have only had the 5 for a year and I do not believe that I have yet reached the point where I am getting 100% from this camera - I am still learning and am convinced my images are still improving. I hate to discard something before I have explored all it can deliver and in my experience - whenever I change my camera - there is a period of time when I would have produced better results on the old one because I have taken the time to fully understand it's capabilities and idiosyncrasies. (

So - I am not in any huge rush to move up. Plus I learned a long time ago that the optimum time to buy is shortly after a new model comes out. So from a financial perspective - unless an offer too good to miss comes up (as it did with the 5) I shall wait for the 3 (or whatever) to be launched and then pick up a new or barely used example 5IIs and save 300+

Carl
No matter how many lenses I have owned - I have always needed just one more

simonkit

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 11:01
It's a purely personal decision so this isn't going to help but I don't see any problem in the images the K5 produces, infact I'm still impressed by the detail it captures and handles PP very well so I'm not convinced that the finished/processed images would be any better with a K5 or a K5iis.

Personally I'm hanging around a little while longer with the K5 to see if full frame does come along, I'm still unsure as to whether I'd go with it anyway but if they manage to squeeze a full frame sensor into a K5 size body I'm much more likely to, although this obviously wouldn't be my only criteria

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miles500

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 11:51
Thanks so much for replies. Having read these and ones form the other forum, I am clear that the K5IIs does offer a real world improvement over the original K5. Two factors influence me. The first is that I am sometimes frustrated by the AF when shooting moving objects which is much better than the K7 but still not totally reliable. (It goes without saying that I never exclude user error or lack of technique - I am always learning!). The second is that as a camera club member I am up against some pretty talented opposition, some of whom use some pretty high end cameras such as the Nikon 800.
I am impressed by Fletcher8's images and by the fact that a professional chooses to use the K5IIs. K5IIs users seem to report better AF and not just in low light as well as not needing to calibrate lenses.

On the other hand I have to say that I get some very sharp images from my K5 and although I have had it more than two years now, there is probably more than I can learn from this camera ( so here I am agreeing with Carl and Simon!). I like to keep up with latest developments, but hate to waste money and upgrading now might mean another upgrade a few months later. However I do not know when any new models are going to come along and even if they were to be announced in September, they would probably not be available until November and even then it would be wise to wait for the inevitable price drop after about 3 months and also to see if here are any bugs ( like the sensor stain saga) which need to be eradicated. In this latter scenario, if I upgraded, I would have at least the best part of a year with the K5IIs anyway!

If only we knew whether there are to be two new models ( APS-C and FF) or one (APS-C or FF). I would be even more undecided with FF bearing in mind that very few of my ten lenses would be compatible.

The sensible course of action is probably to wait and see what is announced. However cameras, lenses and photography in general have a very significant emotional aspect which can not always be reconciled with the rational side of one's brain. I will think hard. Fortunately I have no time this week to visit SRS!
Miles

Fletcher8

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 11:52
aliengrove wrote:
I'm still vacillating over whether to get a K5iis now or wait for the next generation camera, hopefully full-frame. The one improvement I want over all others is low-light capability (in terms of noise, not AF); has anyone noticed any significant improvement in this?

Jonathan, the K5ll and the K5lls have an improvement in terms of noise to ISO, but not a huge improvement. From my experience up to ISO 1000 is very very good and 98% of images I cant tell the difference between ISO 200 to 1000.

I think when Pentax do release a FF model the quality of very very clean ISO images will be well above ISO 2000.
The higher ISO and DOF are the only two aspects that would appeal to me in terms of full frame mainly for weddings and portraits, but as the majority of my work requires longer focal lengths, APS-C is working really well for me currently.

The low level light focusing on the K5lls is a big plus though.
Fletcher8.

cabstar

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 12:10
My take on it is simple, the k-5 still gets in the way of your photography where the mkii and mkiis don't.

What do I mean by that. All my lenses on my mkii are razor sharp with no adjustments needed. Secondly the af hardly hunts due to a lack of light or dark subjects. My mkii focuses instantly on my black Labrador as it does my darkened silhouette looking subjects in a dark club.

Fnally there is an improvement in sensor quality, bith in noise reduction and quality.
as someone mentioned earlier the mark II k-5 are what the mki should have been. I was fortunate in that my upgrade obly cost me 200 with the extra trade in deal at Xmas a d I don't regret it one moment.
As for waiting for full frame who knows when that might happen and at what price?
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Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released
Last Edited by cabstar on 22/05/2013 - 12:13

Smeggypants

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 13:17
miles500 wrote:
Thanks so much for replies. Having read these and ones form the other forum, I am clear that the K5IIs does offer a real world improvement over the original K5. Two factors influence me. The first is that I am sometimes frustrated by the AF when shooting moving objects which is much better than the K7 but still not totally reliable. (It goes without saying that I never exclude user error or lack of technique - I am always learning!). The second is that as a camera club member I am up against some pretty talented opposition, some of whom use some pretty high end cameras such as the Nikon 800.
I am impressed by Fletcher8's images and by the fact that a professional chooses to use the K5IIs. K5IIs users seem to report better AF and not just in low light as well as not needing to calibrate lenses.

As a K-5 owner I've pondered about upgrading to the K-5II. The only thing I can see worth upgrading for is the better AF. Like Gary says that's what the K-5 should have been. I even had to return my first K-5 because the AF was that bad in low light and V1.03 didn't cure it.

For a pro like Gary I can completely understand why he's upgraded to a camera with better AF. If I was a pro I would have done so.

The other issue that in a few months the K-5 will be three years old, and three years without releasing a new model is a long time. I cannot imagine Pentax not releasing a new APS-C Camera this year.

Quote:
The second is that as a camera club member I am up against some pretty talented opposition, some of whom use some pretty high end cameras such as the Nikon 800

Personally I don't look at photography as a competition, but surely if competition is important to you then why not consider going Nikon and getting a D800 ? You wouldn't enter a formula 1 race driving a Skoda

Quote:
not needing to calibrate lenses.

I can't see this as relevant in anyway. You calibrate a lens once. Takes less than 5 minutes and is all but insignificant for a camera you might own for 2 or 3 years

Ultimately it's down to how much disposable cash you have, or how much debt you're prepared to go into as to whether you wait for the K-3 in a few months or get a K-5II NOW
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

miles500

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 14:24
To Smeggy

Photography is only a competition when you get caught up in camera club activities - I am not sure whether that is good or bad, but you learn fast and competitions can be both enjoyable when the judge llikes your images and not so enjoyable when he/she does not. As for Skodas - they are actually very good cars with an image problem not unlike Pentax. If I really thought that Canon/ Nikon were superior to Pentax, I would change, but I do not. Pentax is second to none given a satisfactory capture especially with an improved AF as with the KIIs.
Miles

Mannesty

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 18:07
I upgraded from a K20D to a K-5 to a K-5 II and I can say that the difference in AF speed, accuracy, and in low light (read dark) of the K-5 II/K-5 IIs is well worth it.

Since all of the K-5's share the same sensor, I've not noticed any improvement in resolution, but then I wasn't expecting any.

From the reviews I've read, there is little difference in terms of IQ between the two K-5 II models and the non-s model was significantly cheaper to persuade me not to go for the K-5 IIs.

The only reason I can see to wait for anew model is that the old models become cheaper, but then you are missing out on using some quality kit until then.
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cabstar

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 20:03
Smeggypants wrote:
miles500 wrote:
Thanks so much for replies. Having read these and ones form the other forum, I am clear that the K5IIs does offer a real world improvement over the original K5. Two factors influence me. The first is that I am sometimes frustrated by the AF when shooting moving objects which is much better than the K7 but still not totally reliable. (It goes without saying that I never exclude user error or lack of technique - I am always learning!). The second is that as a camera club member I am up against some pretty talented opposition, some of whom use some pretty high end cameras such as the Nikon 800.
I am impressed by Fletcher8's images and by the fact that a professional chooses to use the K5IIs. K5IIs users seem to report better AF and not just in low light as well as not needing to calibrate lenses.

As a K-5 owner I've pondered about upgrading to the K-5II. The only thing I can see worth upgrading for is the better AF. Like Gary says that's what the K-5 should have been. I even had to return my first K-5 because the AF was that bad in low light and V1.03 didn't cure it.

For a pro like Gary I can completely understand why he's upgraded to a camera with better AF. If I was a pro I would have done so.

The other issue that in a few months the K-5 will be three years old, and three years without releasing a new model is a long time. I cannot imagine Pentax not releasing a new APS-C Camera this year.

Quote:
The second is that as a camera club member I am up against some pretty talented opposition, some of whom use some pretty high end cameras such as the Nikon 800

Personally I don't look at photography as a competition, but surely if competition is important to you then why not consider going Nikon and getting a D800 ? You wouldn't enter a formula 1 race driving a Skoda

Quote:
not needing to calibrate lenses.

I can't see this as relevant in anyway.

Well when I started calibrating my lenses, even after calibrating the focus would change. On the mkii non needed calibrating. This is important as it shows that actually non of my lenses are faulty or misallinged which means there is something wrong with the accuracy of the pre mkii focus systems. Given the high number of unsharp shots I achieves in the past and the high number of keepers I get now points to just how poor the old af systems are.
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Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released

Fletcher8

Link Posted 22/05/2013 - 20:20
Gary very off topic, but if you ever think about selling your Tokina AT-X SD 100-300mm f4 let me know please.
Fletcher8.
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