To the 'flashers' amongst us, what issues are there with the K3II and K1?


JohnX

Link Posted 22/07/2016 - 11:23
A post elsewhere prompts me to ask, what about PTTL, etc, with these latest flash-less models?

smudge

Link Posted 22/07/2016 - 17:56
For travelling light with the K1 I bought the tiny AF 201 unit, which is better than a built in unit because it is more powerful and the head can tilt. Other than that I just use one of the 540s that I already had for my older bodies. For bounce flash I find that auto usually gives more accurate exposure than PTTL anyway. For off camera I have always mainly used radio triggers with flash in manual mode, so no different than before.
Regards, Philip
Last Edited by smudge on 22/07/2016 - 17:56

D0n

Link Posted 22/07/2016 - 20:43
JohnX wrote:
A post elsewhere prompts me to ask, what about PTTL, etc, with these latest flash-less models?

an off camera wire kit for pentax is nice it has a hotshoe adaptor for the camera, a second adaptor for the flash and ttl wire long or short cable for connecting the camera to the flash while maintaining full flash compatibility.

next step up is using "auto" with optical slaves where an on camera flash unit fires the off camera flashes.

then wireless P-ttl with on camera flash firing off camera flash.

for the ultimate in control, try wireless flash with radio slaves and manual controls.

I prefer manual flash myself. use whatever works, they can all do a nice job.

no built in flash is a minor issue, you do need to buy one or two or more off camera flash units. that is all.

Last Edited by D0n on 22/07/2016 - 20:59

stub

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 00:31
Even as a staunch Pentax lover.. I have to disagree here. Pardon the pun. But when it comes to off camera P-TTL. (TTL) Pentax is light years behind the competition. There simply isnt enough product around to offer versatillity. More worryingly. No signs of correcting it either. Yes, there are some very awkward and expensive work around solutions. But these are far from ideal.. The onboard flash was one of very few trigger options available. No way of remotely making changes to power on individual units. You are practically forced to go manual. Which I agree isnt necessarily a bad thing. No third party manufacturers backing the brand. Some very nice lighting coming from China at present. Non of which is available to Pentax user's. Pentax seem to view flash like they do video on their units... It's available if your desperate. But they dont really expect anyone to treat it seriously.. If your a studio user. Pentax have only one camera that can tether in lightroom or Capture one software. (why only one ) .

Sorry rant over...
K-1Gripped K-1 ungripped K-5ii K7 Various lenses

Stuart..
Last Edited by stub on 23/07/2016 - 00:39

D0n

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 01:48
stub wrote:
Even as a staunch Pentax lover.. I have to disagree here. Pardon the pun. But when it comes to off camera P-TTL. (TTL) Pentax is light years behind the competition. There simply isnt enough product around to offer versatillity. More worryingly. No signs of correcting it either. Yes, there are some very awkward and expensive work around solutions. But these are far from ideal.. The onboard flash was one of very few trigger options available. No way of remotely making changes to power on individual units. You are practically forced to go manual. Which I agree isnt necessarily a bad thing. No third party manufacturers backing the brand. Some very nice lighting coming from China at present. Non of which is available to Pentax user's. Pentax seem to view flash like they do video on their units... It's available if your desperate. But they dont really expect anyone to treat it seriously.. If your a studio user. Pentax have only one camera that can tether in lightroom or Capture one software. (why only one ) .

Sorry rant over...

I agree pentax p-ttl is about the worst available, but it is workable... what would be nice is if pentax either worked out a deal with elinchrom/sekonic/photix to improve the situation, or released a wi-fi flash system that replaced wireless-pttl with wi-fi communication/control and allowed app developers to produce smartphone apps to let people program the flash units.
link

in the mean time, going with manual flash with optical slaves or radio transmitters might be more time consuming to set up, BUT you can mix and match brands and have vivitar, pentax, nikon and canon units all working together... on manual.... so there's that...
I have a flash meter and have no issues using whatever is laying around and using wein peanut slaves, skyport radio slaves and studio lights combined.
Last Edited by D0n on 23/07/2016 - 01:53

McGregNi

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 03:51
The built-in flashes with wireless P-TTL triggering are certainly a convenience , but we have to be realistic and accept their limitations, in particular the lack of tilt / twist which can aid pointing the signal at the slave flash, and the old chestnut of lack of HSS . The smaller pocket sized alternatives only partially provide what a full-blown flashgun like the AF-360 / 540FGZ (Mki or II) will do, and so unless you really can't / won't carry one of those then its hard to recommend those smaller options. If you do get them for convenience then you will lose the wireless triggering, but won't gain HSS .... so its really for a bit more power and some extra directional control.

For the committed flash user then , I don't think lack of built-in is a concern. If you really are dedicated to taking control of your lighting and balancing light sources in your photos, then you will surely enjoy packing and taking the specialised equipment needed.

Sure, I agree that Pentax is some way behind the other DSLR makes with its proprietary flash system .... not the flashes themselves, which are well made and full featured ..... but the wider system for controlling multiple flashes automatically (group control) and as referred to above, no way to control the ratios or manual power remotely. There are some new radio controlled flashes available from the competition..... BUT ... !!! THE COST ?!?! This type of proprietary brand flash control equipment is VERY expensive, especially once you need multiple flashes plus the 'commander' thing. Really, working a full TTL automated proprietary wireless multi-flash system is for the pros only, or the very wealthy amateur.

Reading the vast majority of new forum posts (not just here) from people looking for advice on new flash gear, I get the impression that most Pentax flash users are not the pros and very wealthy ..... really, almost everyone asking is looking for the budget, cheapest options available .... and then those usually end up being too expensive for them! So, it would be great for Pentax to develop on things and 'catch up' ..... but could they be excused if they felt there wasn't the market for it all .... ?
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 23/07/2016 - 04:06

D0n

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 10:48
McGregNi wrote:
The built-in flashes with wireless P-TTL triggering are certainly a convenience , but we have to be realistic and accept their limitations, in particular the lack of tilt / twist which can aid pointing the signal at the slave flash, and the old chestnut of lack of HSS . The smaller pocket sized alternatives only partially provide what a full-blown flashgun like the AF-360 / 540FGZ (Mki or II) will do, and so unless you really can't / won't carry one of those then its hard to recommend those smaller options. If you do get them for convenience then you will lose the wireless triggering, but won't gain HSS .... so its really for a bit more power and some extra directional control.

For the committed flash user then , I don't think lack of built-in is a concern. If you really are dedicated to taking control of your lighting and balancing light sources in your photos, then you will surely enjoy packing and taking the specialised equipment needed.

Sure, I agree that Pentax is some way behind the other DSLR makes with its proprietary flash system .... not the flashes themselves, which are well made and full featured ..... but the wider system for controlling multiple flashes automatically (group control) and as referred to above, no way to control the ratios or manual power remotely. There are some new radio controlled flashes available from the competition..... BUT ... !!! THE COST ?!?! This type of proprietary brand flash control equipment is VERY expensive, especially once you need multiple flashes plus the 'commander' thing. Really, working a full TTL automated proprietary wireless multi-flash system is for the pros only, or the very wealthy amateur.

Reading the vast majority of new forum posts (not just here) from people looking for advice on new flash gear, I get the impression that most Pentax flash users are not the pros and very wealthy ..... really, almost everyone asking is looking for the budget, cheapest options available .... and then those usually end up being too expensive for them! So, it would be great for Pentax to develop on things and 'catch up' ..... but could they be excused if they felt there wasn't the market for it all .... ?

Ricoh bought out Eye-fi the makers of wifi enabled sd cards... if they're smart, they will release a wi-fi based p-ttl transciever that allows a smartphone app to control the flash units for older flash units and incorporate wifi into newer flash units, and allow a software SDK out in the public domain for app developers to "adapt" the system to solve various problems. establishing a connection between various cameras and flash units would be easy, also studio units and other brands...
then a firmware upgrade to the pentax wi-fi sd cards could let ANY pentax/ricoh camera use the flash system even if the camera has no hotshoe... Theta, and the Wg sports cams and ricoh Gr systems all using the same flash system would be nice. ratios and flash functions and "user presets" for favourite set ups could all be a tap on the smart phone app away ...
Last Edited by D0n on 23/07/2016 - 10:53

JohnX

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 13:59
Thanks for the comments, folks.

As I understand it then, if I mount a Pentax flash on my K3II, I will get P-TTL.

The considered view, however, points to P-TTL being a bit of a waste of time, and I should go manual either on or off camera, or better yet full 'son et lumiere' with multiple off camera flash units fired via an on-camera trigger device , (with corresponding flash receivers).

D0n

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 15:21
JohnX wrote:
Thanks for the comments, folks.

As I understand it then, if I mount a Pentax flash on my K3II, I will get P-TTL.

The considered view, however, points to P-TTL being a bit of a waste of time, and I should go manual either on or off camera, or better yet full 'son et lumiere' with multiple off camera flash units fired via an on-camera trigger device , (with corresponding flash receivers).

sounds about right.

McGregNi

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 15:22
I don't personally find that ' the considered view' ...I use P-TTL regularly, both on camera bounced and 1 or 2 off -camera slaves and so long as its kept within the bounds of ' what it is' then I find it very good and accurate. In fact P-TTL automatic exposures are indispensible for most of my flash shots. In many dynamic situations, with moving subjects, changing positions or varying light, manual flash control would be a complete hassle and add to the workload.

We can always look towards improvements and expansions of the system but the Pentax flashes are excellent and provide essential automatic flash exposures and P-TTL features like HSS and 2nd curtain sync,AF assist, auto zoom and flash distance indications.... None of which will be available on basic radio manual flashes.
My Guides to the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System : Download here from the PentaxForums Homepage Article .... link
Pentax K7 with BG-4 Grip / Samyang 14mm f2.8 ED AS IF UMC / DA18-55mm f3.5-5.6 AL WR / SMC A28mm f2.8 / D FA 28-105mm / SMC F35-70 f3.5-4.5 / SMC A50mm f1.7 / Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD macro / SMC M75-150mm f4.0 / Tamron Adaptall (CT-135) 135mm f2.8 / Asahi Takumar-A 2X tele-converter / Pentax AF-540FGZ (I & II) Flashes / Cactus RF60/X Flashes & V6/V6II Transceiver
Last Edited by McGregNi on 23/07/2016 - 15:37

JohnX

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 16:44
McGregNi wrote:
I don't personally find that ' the considered view' ...

Bit of poetic licence on my part.

I appreciate your further comments.

smudge

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 17:07
Just to clarify my earlier comment. Yes PTTL does work as normal with a Pentax flash on the K1. For direct flash it usually gives accurate exposure. But for bounced flash I find that PTTL sometimes over exposes but auto mode is generally accurate. This applies to both K5ii and K1. It is one reason I will not be trading up to the new 540 as I believe it no longer has 'auto' mode.
Regards, Philip

stub

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 17:15
if only we could use the Yongnuo YN600EX-RT + YNE3-RT Controller.... 3 TTL flash units and a TTL radio controller. For less cost than an AF540fgz... But we live in hope..!!
K-1Gripped K-1 ungripped K-5ii K7 Various lenses

Stuart..

D0n

Link Posted 23/07/2016 - 17:17
smudge wrote:
Just to clarify my earlier comment. Yes PTTL does work as normal with a Pentax flash on the K1. For direct flash it usually gives accurate exposure. But for bounced flash I find that PTTL sometimes over exposes but auto mode is generally accurate. This applies to both K5ii and K1. It is one reason I will not be trading up to the new 540 as I believe it no longer has 'auto' mode.

far too many "blinkers" with the p-ttl preflash... up to 50% of otherwise good moments get lost when people blink on the preflash.... . nobody gives a @@$$ if the exposure is out a bit when shooting RAW, but the number of ruined shots due to blinkers makes event and wedding shooting with p-ttl on camera unusable IMHO better to go auto or manual mode more often than not... getting the flashes off camera helps and having the on camera flash adding a touch of fill is the way to go. .
Last Edited by D0n on 23/07/2016 - 17:18
Add a Comment
You must be registered or logged-in to comment.