To shake or not to shake part 2


kerrowdown

Link Posted 20/07/2008 - 10:29
Hi all, a while ago I asked the question (which at the time caused a bit of a debate) about SR on or off when using tripod.

I was quite correctly reminded (it’s an age thing with me) that “using the self-timer, the 2s delay, remote control shooting, the remote 3s delay, bulb mode, or wireless with external flash, it's all done for you in any case - SR is off without having to touch a switch”. Now that’s all well and good, the tripod question is taken care of.

Here’s the big but, I’m being asked more and more to cover lower light sporting events, with fast long lenses, (for a good while I stopped doing these events, not a problem with LX’s no SR) hence I use a monopod, so same question again SR on or off.

Having done it both ways, I can’t see any difference, what are the thoughts?

I know I’m just sad, but I do like to have a standard type of workflow, starting right at the picture capture stage (I find for me, usually less errors that way). Maybe it does not matter either way and perhaps I need to get out more.
My Harem of Ladies.... “Mistress" (Pentax-A 15mm F3.5 ), "Good Lady” (Pentax-A 20mm F2.8 ), “Friendly Lady” (Pentax-A 24mm F2.8 ), "Deviate Lady" (Pentax 28mm F3.5 Shift ), "Street Lady" (Pentax-A 28mm F2.8 ), "Retro Lady" (SMC Pentax-M 40mm F2.8 ), "Special Lady” (Pentax-A 50mm F1.2 ), “Femme Fatale” (Pentax-A 50mm F2.8 Macro ), “Sweetheart” (Pentax-A* 85mm F1.4 ), "Lady Luck” (Pentax-A* 135mm F1.8 ), “Gorgeous Lady” (Pentax-A* 200mm F2.8 ED ), “Duchess” (Pentax-A* 300mm F4.0 ) and "HM The Queen" (SMC Pentax 500mm F4.5 ).

johnriley

Link Posted 20/07/2008 - 11:14
A monopod does not stop camera movement like a tripod does, so my guess would be SR on. But even with SR off many shots may still be sharp, so seeing no diffence when you might be using higher shutter speeds anyway might not be a reliable test.

You need to test against a test subject to be sure. Newspaper attached to a wall maybe?
Best regards, John

chirpy

Link Posted 20/07/2008 - 18:16
I always use a monopod whether doing macro with the Sigma 180mm or wildlife using the 300mm DA* and I always have SR on with no side-effects. Indeed, I wouldn't be able to take a lot of the low-light shots without it.
Jonathan

Macro & Wildlife Photography

golfdiesel

Link Posted 27/07/2008 - 12:22
The user manual of the K20D mentions that you should turn SR off when shooting fast moving subjects like the ones you encounter during sporting events (unless you are covering a chess match ).

The SR system can be fooled to believe that a moving subject is camera shake. The same goes for shooting moving object like cars where you move the camera to get a stationary object and a blurred background.
Camera:K20D|Ist*DS|Spotmatic II|MZ-10
Pentax Lenses: DA16-45|DA50-200|50A 1.7
Tamron Lenses: 28-200
Takumar Lenses: SMC 55 1.8
Sigma Lenses: EX DG 50-500 'Bigma'|EX 50mm Macro
Flashes: Metz 58 AF-1|Samsung SEF-36PZF|Pentax AF-220T

ChrisA

Link Posted 27/07/2008 - 14:23
golfdiesel wrote:
The SR system can be fooled to believe that a moving subject is camera shake.

I see no way that this can be true.

Pentax publishes this moderately interesting document.

In it, it says this:

Pentax wrote:
How does the SR system control hand shake?
By calculating a correction value from the amount of shake detected through the gyro sensor, the system shifts the image sensor at high speed, by magnetic force, to vertically or horizontally compensate for the shake.

I understand this to mean that it derives its action solely from movements of the camera, not also of the subject.


golfdiesel wrote:

The user manual of the K20D mentions that you should turn SR off when shooting fast moving subjects

I can believe that the camera might interpret intentional camera movement (especially if not smooth) as shake, and correct for it.

That document also says this:

Quote:
Does the SR system work during pan shots of moving subjects?
Yes, it does work, but switching the SR function off is recommended. In shooting conditions where there may be camera shake more than by hand, the SR system may not appropriately compensate for the shaking.

I find this annoyingly obfuscatory. What does "appropriately" mean here? Does it mean too much, the wrong sort, or not enough?

And with panning shots, where does this 'camera shake more than by hand' come from?

They're either trying to deliberately hide things, or they've just dumbed it down, creating the illusion of explanation, but not really making anything much clearer.
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Last Edited by ChrisA on 27/07/2008 - 14:26

golfdiesel

Link Posted 27/07/2008 - 15:48
If it only works by using the gyro's for detecting motion why do they tell you to turn it off while using a tripod then? If it uses the gyro's then it shouldn't matter if the camera is completely stable because the gyro's do not detect any movement so the sensor should remain on the same location...
Camera:K20D|Ist*DS|Spotmatic II|MZ-10
Pentax Lenses: DA16-45|DA50-200|50A 1.7
Tamron Lenses: 28-200
Takumar Lenses: SMC 55 1.8
Sigma Lenses: EX DG 50-500 'Bigma'|EX 50mm Macro
Flashes: Metz 58 AF-1|Samsung SEF-36PZF|Pentax AF-220T

ChrisA

Link Posted 27/07/2008 - 15:57
golfdiesel wrote:
If it uses the gyro's then it shouldn't matter if the camera is completely stable because the gyro's do not detect any movement so the sensor should remain on the same location...

Indeed, and I've found no evidence for worse results with SR on, on a tripod.

It's not quite as simple as this, though, since when you release the shutter with your finger, even on the tripod, there is shake, caused by the act of pressing the button.

I wish they'd publish a specific, clear reason for why they say you should turn it off.
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Pentax K-3, DA18-135, DA35 F2.4, DA17-70, DA55-300, FA28-200, A50 F1.7, A100 F4 Macro, A400 F5.6, Sigma 10-20 EXDC, 50-500 F4.5-6.3 APO DG OS Samsung flash SEF-54PZF(x2)
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Last Edited by ChrisA on 27/07/2008 - 15:58
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