Super A / LX - metering for ISO 12800 - Pushing Film.


pointandshoot

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 09:16
Hi guys,

Was thinking about this today and wondered what other people do when exposing shots at +2 or even +3 stops above a films rated ISO.

I was wondering how reliable the light meter is when pushing say a 3200 roll to 12800 by setting the ISO ring to 3200 and adjusting the EV ring accordingly. How are other people metering low light settings?

I process film myself and have recently started pushing film so I'm still very much in the discovery phase of this whole process. After an initial bumpy start, I've managed to consistently push 4 rolls of HP5 400 to 3200 with reasonably good results just using the cameras meter.
___________________________________
My reality isn't necessarily your reality, so I take pictures.

Super-A, LX, K100d

LennyBloke

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 10:32
pointandshoot wrote:
Hi guys,

Was thinking about this today and wondered what other people do when exposing shots at +2 or even +3 stops above a films rated ISO.

I was wondering how reliable the light meter is when pushing say a 3200 roll to 12800 by setting the ISO ring to 3200 and adjusting the EV ring accordingly. How are other people metering low light settings?

I process film myself and have recently started pushing film so I'm still very much in the discovery phase of this whole process. After an initial bumpy start, I've managed to consistently push 4 rolls of HP5 400 to 3200 with reasonably good results just using the cameras meter.

I'm pretty certain that the LX uses "off the film plane" metering, so it should be as accurate as the best cameras from the 80's. No real knowledge of the Super A, but a good resource for this stuff (or a starting point at least) is KMP...
http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/


LennyBloke

pointandshoot

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 11:19
Thanks LennyBloke, but what about the EV dial?
The LX ISO wheel goes up to 3200, and EV compensation dial's up to x4 I think. Does that technically mean that if I set the camera to ISO 3200 and the EV dial up to x4, I'd be pushing the film to 51200!? Cool!

If so, I'm going to have to try it and see how the measurement compares to my light meter.
hmmm...
___________________________________
My reality isn't necessarily your reality, so I take pictures.

Super-A, LX, K100d

johnriley

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 11:34
You may find that it isn't possible to set the exposure compensation beyond the limits of the meter. The instruction manual will confirm any restrictions in the meter range.
Best regards, John

pointandshoot

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 12:09
thanks jonnriley, I think that's really the heart of the question.
I've not been able to find anything on either of these cameras that suggests the metering is limited by the film speed ring. Can one assume that if we set the ISO ring and EV rings to max on these cameras, we're actually measuring correctly?
___________________________________
My reality isn't necessarily your reality, so I take pictures.

Super-A, LX, K100d

Algernon

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 12:47
You need to read up (Google) on how to establish a correct speed rating for your meter - film - developer combo.

If it's say 3200 changing the +/-EV does not change that it merely gives under or over exposure because the reading is taken off say a white wall or black cloth.

--
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

pointandshoot

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 14:12
It's not that I don't understand how the cameras controls work.
I'm asking what the results are actually like, what people have found to work with these cameras and whether or not the light meter EV dial helps meter at a theoretical 51200 ISO for instance...
The film processing aspect is a separate point that I'm not asking about, although obviously a key part of getting an image from the film. I'm asking about accurate metering here.

Johnriley makes a good point
Quote:
you may find that it isn't possible to set the exposure compensation beyond the limits of the meter.


___________________________________
My reality isn't necessarily your reality, so I take pictures.

Super-A, LX, K100d

womble

Link Posted 25/11/2015 - 20:39
The LX will meter accurately for considerably longer than the manual suggests it will, and has a reputation which far exceeds its "book figures". As a result, the only way to really know how good the metering is, is to try it. How about comparing the results of a hand-held meter against what the LX suggests? I doubt anyone will have any definitive information about such extreme circumstances, so you'll just have to test it for yourself.

K.
Kris Lockyear
It is an illusion that photos are made with the camera… they are made with the eye, heart and head. Henri Cartier-Bresson
Lots of film bodies, a couple of digital ones, too many lenses (mainly older glass) and a Horseman LE 5x4.

My website

pointandshoot

Link Posted 26/11/2015 - 08:58
Ok, so after getting back home and playing with the EV dial, it's not possible to turn it past the max ISO speed.
___________________________________
My reality isn't necessarily your reality, so I take pictures.

Super-A, LX, K100d

johnha

Link Posted 27/11/2015 - 00:16
The Super-A & LX use mechanical dials for ISO, there's only so many 'click' positions available on these dials - hence the limitations with high ISO and exposure compensation. Another option maybe a DX capable camera with DX override, as these mostly allowed override to ISO 6400 and had electronic exposure compensation mechanisms (I'm thinking of the SFXn & Z-1 type camera - but I've never tried it).

As far as film goes, you're probably going to get better results from Delta 3200 than HP5+ pushed to EI3200. But, be aware that Delta 3200 has a base ISO of ISO 1000 and needs extended development (pushing) to get EI3200. Ilford chemicals provide the relevant info - but if sending the film for development make sure the lab are aware.

John.
PPG Flickr

laurencea

Link Posted 28/11/2015 - 10:57
pointandshoot wrote:
Ok, so after getting back home and playing with the EV dial, it's not possible to turn it past the max ISO speed.

had this with the ME Super - wanted to push some 400, so i turned the ISO up to may and tried the compensation, but it wouldn't go. ended up using manual to compensate and push higher.

how did your shots turn out? i was pretty pleased with HP5 when pushed, but i'm relatively new to B&W processing.
Pentax k100d, k30d 18-55, Tamron 70-300, Tamron 500 mirror, pentax 10-17, 50 1:4, a manual 28, some extension tubes and a bagful of memory cards. That's all i need... and a load of film cameras too... that's it, honest.

pointandshoot

Link Posted 30/11/2015 - 11:00
Quote:


had this with the ME Super - wanted to push some 400, so i turned the ISO up to may and tried the compensation, but it wouldn't go. ended up using manual to compensate and push higher.

how did your shots turn out? i was pretty pleased with HP5 when pushed, but i'm relatively new to B&W processing.

Yeah, I've been pushing HP5 to 3200 and to be fair I'm really pleased with the results. I've been using stand development to process the film and the results have far exceeded my expectations. Especially in really dark settings with nothing but a dim lamp and a few fairy lights dangling from a black curtain. I was expecting a black frame and got way more than that
___________________________________
My reality isn't necessarily your reality, so I take pictures.

Super-A, LX, K100d
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