Study Photography at the OCA?

I opened a flyer from ePHOTOzine today advertising:
The Open College of the Arts offers a challenging but flexible Photography degree programme. Study from home to develop your skills and understanding. The programme is modular so you can start with a single course and then decide if you want to pursue the full degree.
Sounds interesting so I am looking into it. Has anyone any awareness of the OCA and this programme? I think it's based in Barnsley.

I'd like to know something of the experience of this distance learning photography course on top of what they state on their website (which in itself sounds promising).

Many thanks.

If you haven't already seen it, you might find this link useful, a report on the photography course by a student who's taken it: http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2011496

The main caution seems to be that the course is very basic at the outset - fine if it's a first serious encounter with a camera, but otherwise perhaps a little frustrating

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Regards, Christopher

ChristopherWheelerPhotography

Hi Christopher

Thanks for that link, I found it very informative and suitably objective. I am not against the beginning being elementary; as was suggested in the text, it's up to the individual to utilise the the basics creatively.

Glad you spotted that link, much appreciated.

Hi,

yes, I'm currently doing the BA in Photography with OCA. It's a distance learning course whereby you are assigned a tutor and are sent the learning materials through the post. You can correspond with the tutor etc and even meet up periodically for face to face tutorials.

Can't speak for the beginning modules as I was lucky enough to get Accreditation of Prior Learning as I already had a HND, so started at their Level 3 modules, the equivalent of the final year at Uni and the ones that count toward your final degree grade. The elementary modules may well be quite basic as it's open entry so no prior quals / knowledge are needed as far as I'm aware. It's worth enquiring whether you could skip a level if you can demonstrate existing knowledge, there seemed to be some scope to do that when I started.

Ok - just looked at the link above and it paints a pretty accurate picture.

It seems to be a very well run and professional organisation and my designated tutor has been really supportive. There are forums etc to discuss the course with so you don't feel isolated, as can happen with distance learning. Michael Freeman (the photography book author) is on the staff, and the course are now accredited by the University of Creative Art who have some notable alumini.

The main thing you would need is bags of self-motivation, as deadlines etc are fairly flexible, it's very easy just to let things be put off for a month or two!

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'The RAW is the score and the print is the performance' - Apologies to Ansel Adams

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Hi NJ

It’s good to hear from a student on the course, not least because you are also a lecturer, so know about teaching and learning. It may sound odd, but for my own reasons, I’d like to try distance learning and I need to learn about photography; on these counts it ticks the boxes.

I guess your HND was in photography or a related art subject to get accreditation, this is something I will speak to them about even if architecture is stretching it a bit. I ought to find out about the elementary modules, perhaps set myself some sort of test against the year one curriculum.

Good to know that you agree with the Student Room description. More importantly it is good to know that the programme is well run and professional. One to one tuition or critique is important as is peer to peer feedback. The big bonus is that you tell me Michael Freeman is on the staff – I’m reading ‘The Photographer’s Eye’ and find it informative and thought provoking.

I hear what you say about self-motivation, I can be easily distracted but all life has to offer, however this can be balanced by a healthy dose of obsession. My partner tells me it is one of my traits, or as a former tutor said ‘Ronnie is a victim of his own interests’. Well, with my partner studying horticulture part time, and possibly about to embark on a course in landscape architecture, I am sure that by example, she will keep me on track.

Thanks again for your comments, I had a feeling that someone on this forum would know something about the course, and you have come up trumps.

Ronnie.

Cheers Ronnie, glad to be of help.

Yes, my HND was in photography, but there seems to be scope to get prior photographic experience as well as qualifications taken into account if I remember rightly - though it costs a pretty penny to have your evidence looked at!

By coincidence I was reading the very same book before I signed up, and finding out Micheal Freeman was responsible for the photography courses was one of the things which made me think the course would be worthwhile.

For me, the course has forced me to get out and take photos and given a direction and structure to my work, rather than just snapping willy-nilly and reading gear reviews online which was what I had been doing prior!

Along with all the reading around photographic and art history, philosophy, aesthetics etc which are required, certainly in the higher levels, it has really broadened the way I think about image-making, beacause you really need to study photography, rather than just take pictures on the course.


NJ

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'The RAW is the score and the print is the performance' - Apologies to Ansel Adams

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NJ, you have me summed up perfectly 'just snapping willy-nilly and reading gear reviews online', I will benefit from the incentive of assignments.

Your final paragraph is indeed persuasive.

I'll take it from here......

Each to their own of course, but there's nothing wrong whatsoever with snapping willy nilly. If you've got an 'eye' then snapping wily nilly can produce the most excellent of photographs. Vivian Maier is a good example

http://www.vivianmaier.com/portfolios/new-york-1/

As I say, each to their own

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[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
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Vivian maier took between 100,000 to 150,000 pictures in her lifetime compared to henry cartier bresson who took around 50,000 inges in his lifetime, if you take that many photos you will eventually get good at it.

When i did my a level in photography the majority of the time was spent studying past photography masters to understand structure, composition and framing. Working out exposures is easy to master, understanding the art takes a little longer i dont think anybody is born with a photographic eye, even bailey admitted he gets more inspiration from grand master painters than fellow photographers.

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PPG Wedding photography Flickr
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Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released

Vivian Meier didn't even see the vast majority of her photographs as she died leaving the vast majority of them on rolls undeveloped.

To me she is someone that just went out and took great photographs and had a natural eye for it.

Jimi Hendrix is a perfect example of someone born with a natural gift for music and no one would claim you can't be born with a natural musical gift.

Usain Bolt was born with something that other's no matter how much hard work/practise they put in cannot compete with.

Of course some people are born with photographic eyes ( lucky sods )



Which really means understanding other people's art. And there's nothing wrong with studying the works of great photographers, composers, painters, etc

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[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
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I dont believe she never processed any of her images, she must have done early on in her photo hobby....

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PPG Wedding photography Flickr
Concert photography

Currently on a Pentax hiatus until an FF Pentax is released

Neither do I. ( and of course I never claimed that )

Looking at this page

http://www.vivianmaier.com/research/history/

about 3,000 prints of hers were discovered, along with the 100,000 to 150,000 negatives and .... hundreds of rolls of film ( unprocessed ).

My point is that looking at her work, the stuff from the early 50s to the colour shots of the mid 1970s show no improvement. They are simply consistently amazing. And that's taking into account the historical interest.

She simply had a fantastic eye.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't think the cause is lost for us mere photographic mortals who aren't born with such genius. Indeed I think we can learn and get better.

But..... I think the key to that is NOT Photography degrees ( Other than learning the technical stuff ), but rather the key is learning how to access our photographic eye to it's full potential by working on our own psyche when snapping.

One of the things I have learned ( from my music creation background ) is not to criticise during the creative process but to criticise afterwards. If you're always in instant critical mode while your creating you'll never set your mind free enough to fully utilise that creative spark.


So yes there's a lot to be said for shooting 'Willy Nilly' - It doesn't mean shooting totally random and without care for composition or subject, rather it means 'shooting free' in a manner which allows your gut feeling and right brain creative instinct to be unhindered by left brain conferences.

Vivian Maier had the 'eye', but I think more importantly she had an attitude that allowed that 'eye' to get the goods. Gary, you shoot gigs and pub/club events which have a huge dynamic subject matter, and as you know there's a fantastic opportunity for some really charismatic shots.

Like Ms Maier you haven't got time to have a left brain conference with yourself on whether the moment is worth capturing or not. It's a matter of seeing a moment and having less than a fraction of a second to capture it forever or losing it forever. I don't think a photography course can teach you that

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[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

This is a rather synthetic argument. Not all courses -- or teachers -- are equal. The best are inspirational and the best instil a level of discipline and perception that would otherwise be attainable, if at all, only over a much longer period. We can easily agree that some people are uniquely talented. That does not mean they cannot benefit at an early stage from some form of structured learning, even if they swiftly leave it behind. For many of the rest of us, I'd say the benefits of being inspired and learning from a well-run course, of whatever nature, are pretty self-evident.

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Regards, Christopher

ChristopherWheelerPhotography

Turns out that you guys have made this a very interesting and informative topic, thanks for the contributions, they have made me stop to think – what are you really getting at, what, underneath the light-hearted banter, is the real point you are making Mr Pants. Something makes me think you are telling me more than you are saying if you get my drift.

Of course, I looked up the link and became distracted from your text by what the link revealed. I am ashamed to admit that I was completely unaware of Vivien Maier. I get the point you are making – take photos regardless of whether you know what you are doing; look, observe, identify, focus, frame and snap. Do it all instantaneously or you’ll miss the moment. Do it now because you will not get another chance. Every moment in space and time is unique and if not snapped – it is lost forever. Don’t hesitate, snap willy nilly without searching for perfection in composition. Life’s not perfect – why should photos be. Life is full of accidents more than it is structured and ordered – photos can reflect and record this mess otherwise described as society in urban environments or whatever. Sorry, this is getting a bit loose.

So I think I get the point Smeggy, but there’s something else going on in consequence of your posts. Let’s start off clearing the air, you are right, there is nothing wrong with just snapping willy-nilly, neither NJ or I suggested there was. It’s just that we want to also be able to understand more about photography, to learn from our elders and better (and young whippersnappers too). We want to take better pictures, to know a bit more about what makes a good photograph, to define what is currently difficult to define, to develop a more critical eye, to develop a photographer’s eye. I go out with my partner, me with my dslr and bag of lenses, her with a point and shoot. She snaps, I set aperture, iso, speed, colour balance, blah blah and photograph. We look over her photographs on the pc – both been to the same place at the same time. A few of my photos are quite good, most are for the bin. Most of her photos are quite good, a few are stunning. She is a natural, she has the ‘eye’. I haven’t, so I have to learn. With patience and persistence I do improve, but mostly because I study and learn. I learn by reading and observation; sometimes by argument. I learn from those many who are better than me, I learn more from the best and I learn more from good teachers.

So today I am learning from a better photographer, from Vivian Maier, but here’s the rub – I wouldn’t have learned anything about her if someone hadn’t mentioned her in a post and given us the link. That someone taught me something, and is therefore a teacher. Today I am, sir, your pupil.

Why do a course? Perhaps I need someone to tell me how much I don’t know so that I know to find out. Perhaps I need to be structured because I am erratic. Perhaps I need to rub shoulders with others who are experiencing the same frustrations. Perhaps I will benefit from reading and discussing what I read.

I don’t need to do a course in photography to learn about the technology and science of photography (I can get that from books and forums), but I do for other reasons, to understand the meaning of photography, to know the philosophical premise of it, to appreciate the aesthetic qualities of a piece, to develop a critical viewpoint. But all this is not for the sake of itself, for me it is a way of life. I learned to play the piano, am no expert, but now massively enjoy solo piano from classical to jazz. I joined a choral society, now I love opera and symphony from Bach to Britten, Mozart to MacMillan. I learned to play a chanter, now I find extraordinary beauty in piobroch. I studied architecture, now the built environment stimulates me. I was taught abstract painting now I begin to understand it and enjoy it. I was taught to sail, now I love the solitude of being at sea and maritime lore. I could go on, but I think you get the drift. I hated all these things until I studied them, until I was taught, now my life, for whatever it’s worth, is enriched. There is so much more in the photographs I look at than I see, but this will improve if I learn more about photography. It will teach me to see what I’m looking at there in front of me. It will reveal something of what is beyond the surface of the print (or screen). If you want to test the thesis, try listening to this: Ceol Na Pioba-Piob Mhor by Barnaby Brown. Now I love this music – it means so much to me, but I used to hate it. There may be something in my inheritance – this was the music of my grandfathers, but I can almost guarantee that you’ll hate it. Ok, because this music is so beautiful I will let you have another piece which is more accessible, try Gaeltacht Medley: Caitlin Triall by Alan Stivell. Perhaps you would find the piobroch at 12:45 into the track quite lovely when it is accompanied by Clarsach (Celtic Harp) – this is Breton/Highland music which I used to listen to when I was younger and more romantic (I’m old and bitter now!). You will find these pieces on Spotify.

The thrust of the argument is that it is possible to enrich life by learning. At times it requires some hard work but it opens up new worlds that are there to be enjoyed if we invest some effort. I will never become a photographer of note but I will enjoy photography more, both as participant and observer, because I will learn and understand it better. There is informal learning and structured learning. I believe in both.

Finally can I thank you again for telling me about Vivian Maier. Her photographs are a true source of inspiration. Appreciated.

Returning to your texts, we agree on most things but it is always reassuring to not agree entirely otherwise we would have nothing to learn from each other. If I choose to do a degree in photography it is for the deep level of understanding and learning that a degree requires and for the structure it offers. I do not do it for marks or grades or qualifications or graduation, all of which are of no interest to me. You will not find me wearing a gown and mortar board, I abhor intellectual elitism and snobbery, and I have put my job on the line over this principle. But learning; that is altogether a different matter. Criticism is a blunt instrument and a last resort, but frequently in creative subjects it is the essential, sometimes only, useful teaching tool. We have to learn to reflect on our work through critical eyes otherwise it might never improve. For Vivian Maier, on the other hand, there was no need of criticism, she probably didn’t need to improve, and as you say it might have inhibited her. Sometimes we should shoot and ask questions later, other times it pays to pause to allow the critical eye to inform the photograph. Sorry if I’m stating the obvious. Of course, I do agree, if critical thinking obstructs creativity, it is misplaced. Creativity is paramount in photography as an art form, however if others don’t concur that’s their prerogative.

Smeggy, as always, I enjoy your comments, and I am flattered that you chose to respond to mine and give us something to think about. I do hope I am offering something interesting in return, but if I do go on a bit, I apologise. Economy of words, when I get going, has never been attributed to me.

Best wishes, Ronnie.

I did read all of your post Ronnie ( honest )

I'm too fatigued to respond to every section right now, but I found the section above quite interesting.

Perhaps you do have an 'eye'. But perhaps when out shooting you prevent your eye from running free by introducing too many other left brain processes, like 'aperture, iso, speed, colour balance, blah blah'


Here's an idea .... next time you go out shooting together, swap gear. Let her have the DSLR, lenses and parameter setting and you take the point and shoot. I would wager you'll simultaneously find it both liberating and restrictive compared to your normal practise.


And a telling point might be "to develop a more critical eye" .... Personally I think that is the last thing anyone should do while out shooting. Rather I think it is better to try and develop a more unrestrained and free spirited eye. IOW the decisions on what to shoot, how to compose that shot and of course whether to take the shot in the fist place are done on gut feeling.

If it feels good at the time of shooting it's more likely to feel good when you get home and view it on your screen. From my own experience if I've actually taken time to criticise a shot while actually shooting it, I also experience that same left brain critique when viewing it at home and there's never the unbridled satisfaction. OTOH, shots that I've snapped on gut feeling becuase it felt right also give a good feeling when viewing them. I don't want to spend time analysing it, becuase that will spoil the good feeling.



We are actually lucky in that camera technology has got to a point where we really shouldn't have to worry that much about the technical aspects. Let's face it AF, and autoexposure modes are really little more than and shoot modes. Semi-point and shoot if you will.


Maybe a psychologist or a hypnotherapist might be a better solution


I suppose ultimately what I'm getting at is that we'd all be better photographers if we just relaxed more while doing it and allowed our right brains to flourish more

Really good thread this.

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[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283