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Some questions.... (16-50 vs. 16-45 vs. 17-70)

golfdiesel
Posted 12/04/2009 - 15:35 Link
I am thinking of buying some new glass.
Initially I wanted to get the DA*16-50 but I read many conflicting reviews.
Is there anyone here who has both the 16-45 and the 16-50? Is the 16-50 a worthwhile upgrade from the 16-45?
I love my 16-45 but the build quality could be better, it functions perfectly but it is a little wobbly when fully extended.

Or will the 17-70 be a better choice because it has a wider range and a constant f/4 aperture.

Currently my 16-45 is the lens that is on my camera for 80% of the time. So a replacement should be better or at least the same in respect of image quality then then 16-45.
The 16-50 will fill he 5mm gap I have now between the 16-45 and the 50-200. The 17-70 will give me a nice overlap between the two but you loose 1mm at the wide end.
Camera:K20D|Ist*DS|Spotmatic II|MZ-10
Pentax Lenses: DA16-45|DA50-200|50A 1.7
Tamron Lenses: 28-200
Takumar Lenses: SMC 55 1.8
Sigma Lenses: EX DG 50-500 'Bigma'|EX 50mm Macro
Flashes: Metz 58 AF-1|Samsung SEF-36PZF|Pentax AF-220T
JPC1970
Posted 12/04/2009 - 19:08 Link
Hi

Can't help you with any input on the 16-45mm or 16-50mm but I have just purchased the 17-70mm lens.

I am so far very impressed with this lens having upgraded from the 18-55mm mark 2 kit lens.

I would say at 329 the image quality (it is better especially at wider apertures) alone wouldn't make the price difference justified but the SDM motor, constant f/4.0 aperture, build quality (it does feel so much better) and the increased range make it worth it.

Also the excellent Bokeh is a real bonus.

However you may find as your upgrading from the 16-45mm the differences to not be worth the outlay unless you can get a good price for your 16-45mm to offset some of the cost.

I am quite happy with the sharpness from wide open, although nearer the tele end it does lose a bit of sharpness (no bad thing if your using it for portraits though).

I didn't really consider the 16-50mm as didn't want to take a chance on the quality issues and I already have as fast or faster lenses at 35mm & 50mm focal lengths.

If you already have a good lens (16-45mm) at those focal lengths is there not a lens at other focal lengths that may be more beneficial ? or maybe a prime ?

Jason
K30 & 18-55mm WR.
Anvh
Posted 12/04/2009 - 19:25 Link
The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 also looks as a very promising lens.
If you look at the charts on photozone, the Tamron 17-50 looks sharper then the Pentax 16-50 and the 17-50 cost the same as the Pentax 16-45, so well worth the price I think.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Hythloday
Posted 12/04/2009 - 19:28 Link
golfdiesel wrote:

I love my 16-45 but the build quality could be better, it functions perfectly but it is a little wobbly when fully extended.

Or will the 17-70 be a better choice because it has a wider range and a constant f/4 aperture.

I have both the DA16-45mm and the DA17-70mm. The DA17-70mm certainly has a better build quality, but is also heavier than the DA16-45mm. Its range is more useful. There is little difference in IQ between the DA16-45mm and the DA17-70mm. When I look at pictures made with the DA16-45mm and the DA17-70mm at 100%, the difference in IQ is mainly caused by focussing.

Unfortunately, Konijnberg offers the DA17-70mm at too high a price. I bought my copy in London at a price of 349,99 pounds which is quite reasonable.
golfdiesel
Posted 12/04/2009 - 19:29 Link
Jason, you are right. I have been reading through the reviews of the 16-50 and I might leave that one out of the equasion.

I have been thinking and reading and a couple of nice primes or even a Bigma will be a more worthwhile upgrade.

I currently have the following glass:
DA16-45
DA50-200
A50 f1.7
Sigma 50mm Macro f2.8
And a couple of old M42 lenses.

Maybe the DA*50-135 will be a nice additon as well since I ocasionally do some stage photography and the 2.8 aperture could be handy there.

I will read and think some more befor buying

I had some financial luck and I have decided to spend some of that luck on new glass
Camera:K20D|Ist*DS|Spotmatic II|MZ-10
Pentax Lenses: DA16-45|DA50-200|50A 1.7
Tamron Lenses: 28-200
Takumar Lenses: SMC 55 1.8
Sigma Lenses: EX DG 50-500 'Bigma'|EX 50mm Macro
Flashes: Metz 58 AF-1|Samsung SEF-36PZF|Pentax AF-220T
Hythloday
Posted 12/04/2009 - 19:32 Link
Anvh wrote:
The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 also looks as a very promising lens.
If you look at the charts on photozone, the Tamron 17-50 looks sharper then the Pentax 16-50 and the 17-50 cost the same as the Pentax 16-45, so well worth the price I think.

That depends on the camera. A 10mp sensor can handle 2000LPH, so it is no use to have a lens that can produce more lines.
Gwyn
Posted 12/04/2009 - 20:33 Link
I have the DA 17-70, and the DA*50-135 and they make a very good, if heavy, pair. I bought them both from SRS, given the low pound and their great pricing it was still cheaper to pay for the postage to the Netherlands, than buy them here.
Anvh
Posted 12/04/2009 - 20:34 Link
Hythloday wrote:
Anvh wrote:
The Tamron 17-50 f/2.8 also looks as a very promising lens.
If you look at the charts on photozone, the Tamron 17-50 looks sharper then the Pentax 16-50 and the 17-50 cost the same as the Pentax 16-45, so well worth the price I think.

That depends on the camera. A 10mp sensor can handle 2000LPH, so it is no use to have a lens that can produce more lines.

Yes that's surely true but the DA*16-50 offers this at 16mm f/2.8
center 2085,5
border 1403,5
extreme 1326,5

If you set that against the tamron 17-50 at 17mm f/2.8
center 2157
border 1836
extreme 1751,5
I believe you can say that it's usefull sharper in the corners.
Certainly at 50mm the pentax drops in the borders while the tamron stays pretty good across the frame.
Here just look for yourself:
Pentax da*16-50
Tamron 17-50
This all lab tests though and I've no idea how the bokeh and such would be so it doesn't mean everything.

golfdiesel wrote:
Maybe the DA*50-135 will be a nice additon as well since I ocasionally do some stage photography and the 2.8 aperture could be handy there.

There is a DA*50-135 on his way to my home for the same reason, I've order it from SRS since it saved me €150.
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
golfdiesel
Posted 12/04/2009 - 20:46 Link
Anvh wrote:

There is a DA*50-135 on his way to my home for the same reason, I've order it from SRS since it saved me €150.

The price difference is huge... What about shipping cost?
It is a very tempting offer... Normally I would think on ordering such an expensive item from outside the country but SRS can be trusted so that isn't a problem.

/Remco
Camera:K20D|Ist*DS|Spotmatic II|MZ-10
Pentax Lenses: DA16-45|DA50-200|50A 1.7
Tamron Lenses: 28-200
Takumar Lenses: SMC 55 1.8
Sigma Lenses: EX DG 50-500 'Bigma'|EX 50mm Macro
Flashes: Metz 58 AF-1|Samsung SEF-36PZF|Pentax AF-220T
Gwyn
Posted 12/04/2009 - 20:51 Link
Mine cost me 515 including shipping, in December.
golfdiesel
Posted 12/04/2009 - 21:07 Link
wow that is quite a difference. 769 is the cheapest I have seen it here in the Netherlands at the moment.
At this moment it is costing 541 at SRS so with shipping added it will be more expensive but still cheaper then here in the Netherlands.

I am still thinking what to do. I allso like the idea of a Bigma... I have allso looked at the new Sigma 150-500 which has a SDM motor BUT allmost every review I read tells me that the Bigma is sharper then the 150-500. Canikon users like the 150-500 because it has a stabiliser but that isn't an issue for us Pentaxians...

When I look at what I normally do a Bigma would get quite some use on holidays and when visiting a zoo.
Camera:K20D|Ist*DS|Spotmatic II|MZ-10
Pentax Lenses: DA16-45|DA50-200|50A 1.7
Tamron Lenses: 28-200
Takumar Lenses: SMC 55 1.8
Sigma Lenses: EX DG 50-500 'Bigma'|EX 50mm Macro
Flashes: Metz 58 AF-1|Samsung SEF-36PZF|Pentax AF-220T
Anvh
Posted 12/04/2009 - 21:49 Link
You also get €10 discount since the other forum members get free delivery in the uk so you get the value of that also.
I'm not sure what the shipping costs would be but will let you know.

I don't have a bigma but I believe it's very big ^^

Maybe a DA*300 with a Kenko 1.5 TC (SDM works with that on) might also be an option.
Or an 70-200 f/2.8 with a 1.5 TC, you will lose one stop of light making it somthing like a 100-300 f/4 which also looks very interesting.

All those desicions and options ^^
Stefan
Comment Image

K10D, K5
DA* 16-50, DA* 50-135, D-FA 100 Macro, DA 40 Ltd, DA 18-55
AF-540FGZ
Gwyn
Posted 12/04/2009 - 22:08 Link
I have the Bigma too, and love it, though it is heavy to take on holiday when flying. Last year I left it behind and regretted doing so, so this year it is going with me, especially as I have no other longish lens nowadays. I just have to hope KLM don't weigh my camera bag
The Bigma has the advantage of the zoom - that is a big plus for me for what I use it for. Much as I'd like the 300mm I think I'd still keep the Bigma for it's flexibility.
Hythloday
Posted 13/04/2009 - 08:38 Link
Anvh wrote:


This all lab tests though and I've no idea how the bokeh and such would be so it doesn't mean everything.

You are right with your remarks about edges and corners.

To be quite honest I don't care much about tests. If two lenses are tested by two different persons the conclusions will also be different. If we look at a test on the DA16-45mm, for example:

Photozone:

"The Pentax SMC-DA 16-45mm f/4 ED AL produced very good resolution figures in the MTF lab. At 16mm the center performance is superb straight from the max. aperture. The borders are good to very good. Stopping down improves the image contrast, less so the resolution on the focus plane (although the perceived sharpness improves due to the bigger depth-of-field)."

http://photozone.de/pentax/134-pentax-smc-da-16-45mm-f4-ed-al-review--test-repor...

DPReview:

Decidedly indifferent at 16mm, where it needs to be stopped down to F11 for best results, the lens improves markedly at longer focal lengths, and is at its best around 28mm. Image quality improves significantly on stopping down , with F8 and F11 the sweet spot;

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/pentax_16-45_4_p15/page3.asp

I have had many lenses and the DA16-45mm is the only lens that focuses properly at the WA setting. All my other lenses I had or have (Sigma 18-125mm, Sigma 18-50mm /2.8 EX, Sigma 17-70mm (for Canon and Pentax), DA18-250mm, DA17-70mm) give the sharpest results if I focus at the tele end, lock focus and zoom out to the desired focul length to take the picture. DOF is enormous at WA and may easily result in less accurate focussing.
Edited by Hythloday: 13/04/2009 - 08:39
Hythloday
Posted 13/04/2009 - 08:45 Link
golfdiesel wrote:

wow that is quite a difference. 769 is the cheapest I have seen it here in the Netherlands at the moment.
At this moment it is costing 541 at SRS so with shipping added it will be more expensive but still cheaper then here in the Netherlands.

You can also enjoy a day out in London, if you like. You can travel by Stenaline and take the nightboat twice so you can spend a full day in London (from 8.45 hrs to 20.15 hrs). The cost per person is 168 euros, including train journeys, hut, breakfast, etc.
Edited by Hythloday: 13/04/2009 - 08:46

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