Problems connecting and external monitor
1,425 posts
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Posted 15/02/2011 - 13:54
It's Vista, I'm afraid.
Next problem
, though hopefully this will be straightforward.
I've calibrated my monitor using a Huey, however, it's not been entirely successful. The colours are better, but I'm not seeing all the dark colours I should - either judging by the test card at the bottom of the screen (I see 15 not 16), or from images (eg. this, much of which I can't make out).
Is there some way of manually adjusting so I can see all the dark areas clearly (critical this as I often have dark areas in my photos).
Mhuni
500px
Next problem
, though hopefully this will be straightforward.I've calibrated my monitor using a Huey, however, it's not been entirely successful. The colours are better, but I'm not seeing all the dark colours I should - either judging by the test card at the bottom of the screen (I see 15 not 16), or from images (eg. this, much of which I can't make out).
Is there some way of manually adjusting so I can see all the dark areas clearly (critical this as I often have dark areas in my photos).
Mhuni
500px
Last Edited by Dr. Mhuni on 15/02/2011 - 14:11
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Posted 15/02/2011 - 17:58
Remember that your video card will only support certain resolutions depending on the model, so even if your monitor has a higher resolution you won't be able to use it.
My Photobucket
My Photobucket
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Posted 15/02/2011 - 18:22
a) upgrade to Win7
b) make sure that your profiles are applied properly, and that you don't calibrate until the monitor and / or LCD has been on for a while (>30min); my calibrations get lost occasionally on this machine, whereas at work they're stable now I've set something up in Task Scheduler.
I'd check first that the calibration is correct for both monitors (and it's not using a setting intended for a different monitor) and I'd also suggest running the calibration whilst lying about the controls on the monitor. That way, the software will try and fix everything as opposed to manual controls which may not give you the results intended.
Vista is truly awful in comparison to 7 and I'd recommend anyone the upgrade: it's faster and far less likely to bluescreen.
Bret
my pics: link
my kit: K3, K5, K-01, DA 18-55, D-FA50 macro, Siggy 30/1.4, 100-300/f4, 70-200/2.8, Samsung 12-24/f4, Tamron 17-50, and lots of other bits.
b) make sure that your profiles are applied properly, and that you don't calibrate until the monitor and / or LCD has been on for a while (>30min); my calibrations get lost occasionally on this machine, whereas at work they're stable now I've set something up in Task Scheduler.
I'd check first that the calibration is correct for both monitors (and it's not using a setting intended for a different monitor) and I'd also suggest running the calibration whilst lying about the controls on the monitor. That way, the software will try and fix everything as opposed to manual controls which may not give you the results intended.
Vista is truly awful in comparison to 7 and I'd recommend anyone the upgrade: it's faster and far less likely to bluescreen.
Bret
my pics: link
my kit: K3, K5, K-01, DA 18-55, D-FA50 macro, Siggy 30/1.4, 100-300/f4, 70-200/2.8, Samsung 12-24/f4, Tamron 17-50, and lots of other bits.
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Posted 16/02/2011 - 06:12
Doc,
Check out this article and some of the links in it. It is a good discussion on wide gamut monitors like ours. Your Huey calibrator probably came with different software to the stuff I use (with Blue Eye Pro), but the concepts are similar.
link
You'll see that when they tested the monitor in the link, the results of the calibration matched one colour space much better than the others. While that probably won't help the brightness, it can inform the choices you make with your monitor settings.
http://www.pbase.com/iberg
Check out this article and some of the links in it. It is a good discussion on wide gamut monitors like ours. Your Huey calibrator probably came with different software to the stuff I use (with Blue Eye Pro), but the concepts are similar.
link
You'll see that when they tested the monitor in the link, the results of the calibration matched one colour space much better than the others. While that probably won't help the brightness, it can inform the choices you make with your monitor settings.
http://www.pbase.com/iberg
Last Edited by i-Berg on 16/02/2011 - 06:16
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Posted 16/02/2011 - 13:07
Once again, thanks everyone for their suggestions.
The latest is I have the resolution sorted out on both screens but only if I use one at a time not in Dualview (ie. two independently set monitors). If I attempt Dualview (either through my Nvidia control panel or Vista) it automatically resizes the other monitor, so that one is correct and the other incorrect (though bizarrely the resolutions aren't the same, as one might expect if it's doing this). For now I think I'll stick to using one screen just because it's simpler and I'm tired of all the hassle (for now at least).
Re. the calibration, this is a minefield - as I'm sure you're all aware. I had started playing with the Gamma in Nvidia - adjusting it so that I could see the 16 shades on the test chart below. But then someone posted this test chart link on another forum, and I found that while I could see the dark shades the ones at the opposite white end were indistinguishable. So I reset my Nvidia settings to default and recalibrated using Huey. The result is that I can see all the shades on the Photofriday chart but I now - once again - cannot see the darkest shade on the PUF chart at the bottom of this page! What is going on?!
Out of interest, can anyone who reads this:
a. compare the Photofriday and PUF charts on their monitors and report back;
b. tell me what they can see in the shot here: link. On my Dell, the image is very dark outside the central area and blocking up in the BLC in particular where the smaller post exiting to the left edge is barely visible. On my laptop, the latter is clearly visible and the definition of all the posts is much clearer against a brighter sky (which is how I intended it).
Mhuni
500px
The latest is I have the resolution sorted out on both screens but only if I use one at a time not in Dualview (ie. two independently set monitors). If I attempt Dualview (either through my Nvidia control panel or Vista) it automatically resizes the other monitor, so that one is correct and the other incorrect (though bizarrely the resolutions aren't the same, as one might expect if it's doing this). For now I think I'll stick to using one screen just because it's simpler and I'm tired of all the hassle (for now at least).
Re. the calibration, this is a minefield - as I'm sure you're all aware
. I had started playing with the Gamma in Nvidia - adjusting it so that I could see the 16 shades on the test chart below. But then someone posted this test chart link on another forum, and I found that while I could see the dark shades the ones at the opposite white end were indistinguishable. So I reset my Nvidia settings to default and recalibrated using Huey. The result is that I can see all the shades on the Photofriday chart but I now - once again - cannot see the darkest shade on the PUF chart at the bottom of this page! What is going on?!Out of interest, can anyone who reads this:
a. compare the Photofriday and PUF charts on their monitors and report back;
b. tell me what they can see in the shot here: link. On my Dell, the image is very dark outside the central area and blocking up in the BLC in particular where the smaller post exiting to the left edge is barely visible. On my laptop, the latter is clearly visible and the definition of all the posts is much clearer against a brighter sky (which is how I intended it).
Mhuni
500px
Last Edited by Dr. Mhuni on 16/02/2011 - 13:08
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Posted 16/02/2011 - 18:09
Hi Doc, that sounds about right to me, I can see all the boxes and circles on the PhotoFriday chart, but can only really see the first 15 here. I think it's just because the footer background is black here, so the 16th black box is almost invisible. I can just about make out the 16th box if I look from several different angles.
My view of your powerline shot matches how you describe in on your Dell. Very dark outer edges, and I can hardly see that left post at all. I didn't even know it was there until you pointed it out, and then I had to look from several angles to see it just like the 16th box in the footer here. (The shot looks great with these very dark edges, btw
)
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
Flickr • Fluidr • PPG • Street • Portfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
My view of your powerline shot matches how you describe in on your Dell. Very dark outer edges, and I can hardly see that left post at all. I didn't even know it was there until you pointed it out, and then I had to look from several angles to see it just like the 16th box in the footer here. (The shot looks great with these very dark edges, btw
) Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
Flickr • Fluidr • PPG • Street • Portfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
Last Edited by thoughton on 16/02/2011 - 18:11
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Posted 16/02/2011 - 18:56
Tim - the 16th 'box' is , if I recall correctly , the whole of the black bottom area . John explained that to us at the beginning when the boxes first appeared and a few of us queried it.
let the education continue
proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
let the education continue
proud owner of a couple of cameras and a few bits and bobs
Link
Posted 17/02/2011 - 06:58
Doc, my Dell monitor shows the image in your link in exactly the way you described is as well. Mine is a U2410 and has been calibrated (at least that's assuming my own amateurish attempts at that actually succeeded).
No issue with the wedge, as T-T has indicated above.
Everything should be set to work on only one Gamma setting, and that should be 2.2 for a PC (1.8 for earlier MACs, but I believe later ones may use 2.2 just like PCs). NVidia's software should play no part in anything at all, otherwise its settings will conflict with that of your calibration software.
Your calibration software should at the least be able to tell you how accurately your monitor approximates that setting of 2.2 in terms of Gamma (although it will analyse a lot more besides).
http://www.pbase.com/iberg
No issue with the wedge, as T-T has indicated above.
Everything should be set to work on only one Gamma setting, and that should be 2.2 for a PC (1.8 for earlier MACs, but I believe later ones may use 2.2 just like PCs). NVidia's software should play no part in anything at all, otherwise its settings will conflict with that of your calibration software.
Your calibration software should at the least be able to tell you how accurately your monitor approximates that setting of 2.2 in terms of Gamma (although it will analyse a lot more besides).
http://www.pbase.com/iberg
Link
Posted 17/02/2011 - 07:59
Dr. Mhuni wrote:
Out of interest, can anyone who reads this:
a. compare the Photofriday and PUF charts on their monitors and report back;
b. tell me what they can see in the shot here: link. On my Dell, the image is very dark outside the central area and blocking up in the BLC in particular where the smaller post exiting to the left edge is barely visible. On my laptop, the latter is clearly visible and the definition of all the posts is much clearer against a brighter sky (which is how I intended it).
Out of interest, can anyone who reads this:
a. compare the Photofriday and PUF charts on their monitors and report back;
b. tell me what they can see in the shot here: link. On my Dell, the image is very dark outside the central area and blocking up in the BLC in particular where the smaller post exiting to the left edge is barely visible. On my laptop, the latter is clearly visible and the definition of all the posts is much clearer against a brighter sky (which is how I intended it).
If you have your monitor anywhere near correctly calibrated, at around 6500K, then you will see images darker than you'd expect. Esp. dark images if they are created on an Apple (using a different gamma to everyone else) and/or their monitor was not calibrated, or set for 9700K. These unfortunately are the the tradeoffs: have your monitor set correctly and see (some) images darker than you'd like; or join the masses and leave your monitor at its "shop" settings. The good news is that your calibrated monitor, all things being equal, should last longer at its calibrtated settings vs running full blast. And note that to view an image properly on a calibrated monitor you should be in a very subdued or unlit room, with no light sources behind you, and a shroud around the monitor is there are any other monitors on in the room. Only then will the colours/brightness look right. Indeed when we made photo-grade CRT's at Radius/SuperMac we included not only a shroud for the monitor but a neutral gray 'barber's style' smock for the user to wear!
And re this page, t-t is correct: there is no 100% 16th box. As John explained, even putting a 1 px white border around it to delineate it would be enough to fool your eye into seeing something other than 100% black.
My PENTAX Page
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Posted 17/02/2011 - 09:03
Yeah, on my ten year old ibook I can see the picture you describe . I'll have a look later on the larger and brighter monitor (not a mac )... Did you take this photo in my village?... Jeff
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Posted 18/02/2011 - 10:04
layingback wrote:
If you have your monitor anywhere near correctly calibrated, at around 6500K, then you will see images darker than you'd expect. Esp. dark images if they are created on an Apple (using a different gamma to everyone else) and/or their monitor was not calibrated, or set for 9700K. These unfortunately are the the tradeoffs: have your monitor set correctly and see (some) images darker than you'd like; or join the masses and leave your monitor at its "shop" settings. The good news is that your calibrated monitor, all things being equal, should last longer at its calibrtated settings vs running full blast. And note that to view an image properly on a calibrated monitor you should be in a very subdued or unlit room, with no light sources behind you, and a shroud around the monitor is there are any other monitors on in the room. Only then will the colours/brightness look right. Indeed when we made photo-grade CRT's at Radius/SuperMac we included not only a shroud for the monitor but a neutral gray 'barber's style' smock for the user to wear!
If you have your monitor anywhere near correctly calibrated, at around 6500K, then you will see images darker than you'd expect. Esp. dark images if they are created on an Apple (using a different gamma to everyone else) and/or their monitor was not calibrated, or set for 9700K. These unfortunately are the the tradeoffs: have your monitor set correctly and see (some) images darker than you'd like; or join the masses and leave your monitor at its "shop" settings. The good news is that your calibrated monitor, all things being equal, should last longer at its calibrtated settings vs running full blast. And note that to view an image properly on a calibrated monitor you should be in a very subdued or unlit room, with no light sources behind you, and a shroud around the monitor is there are any other monitors on in the room. Only then will the colours/brightness look right. Indeed when we made photo-grade CRT's at Radius/SuperMac we included not only a shroud for the monitor but a neutral gray 'barber's style' smock for the user to wear!
This was very interesting, thanks for posting! I had forgotten about the huge hoods some of those old Radius monitors had. Interesting read about the smocks too
layingback wrote:
And re this page, t-t is correct: there is no 100% 16th box. As John explained, even putting a 1 px white border around it to delineate it would be enough to fool your eye into seeing something other than 100% black.
And re this page, t-t is correct: there is no 100% 16th box. As John explained, even putting a 1 px white border around it to delineate it would be enough to fool your eye into seeing something other than 100% black.
This is not actually not correct. There are 16 boxes there, here is the code from the footer of each page on this website:
Quote:
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#ffffff;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#eeeeee;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#dddddd;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#cccccc;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#bbbbbb;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#aaaaaa;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#999999;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#888888;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#777777;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#666666;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#555555;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#444444;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#333333;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#222222;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#111111;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#000000;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#ffffff;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#eeeeee;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#dddddd;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#cccccc;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#bbbbbb;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#aaaaaa;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#999999;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#888888;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#777777;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#666666;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#555555;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#444444;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#333333;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#222222;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#111111;">
< div style="float:left;height:25px;width:25px;background:#000000;">
Tim
AF - Pentax K5, Sigma 10-20/4-5.6, Tamron 17-50/2.8, Sigma 30/1.4, Sigma 70-200/2.8, Tamron 70-300/4-5.6
MF - Vivitar CF 28/2.8, Tamron AD2 90/2.5, MTO 1000/11
Stuff - Metz 58 AF1, Cactus v4, Nikon SB24, Raynox 150, Sigma 1.4x TC, Sigma 2x TC, Kenko 2x macro TC, Redsnapper 283 tripod, iMac 27”, Macbook Pro 17”, iPad, iPhone 3G
Flickr • Fluidr • PPG • Street • Portfolio site
Feel free to edit any of my posted photos! If I post a photo for critique, I want brutal honesty. If you don't like it, please say so and tell me why!
Last Edited by thoughton on 18/02/2011 - 10:06
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bretti_kivi
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Work: Helsinki; Home: Lahti
Which OS? Win7 is a lot smarter than XP about this...
Bret
my pics: link
my kit: K3, K5, K-01, DA 18-55, D-FA50 macro, Siggy 30/1.4, 100-300/f4, 70-200/2.8, Samsung 12-24/f4, Tamron 17-50, and lots of other bits.