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Photographer's rights gets a higher profile

PentaxRocks
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:30 Link
It will contain a readable chip and a scanner sensor, I've already seen what they will look like, and we have already seen what this goverment can do in the past week without telling us what it was really upto, with RBS and £64,000,000,000 that they thought was nothing to do with us.
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Prieni
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:37 Link
I hope you all don't have mobile phones with you...

Prieni
How inappropriate to call this planet earth when it is quite clearly Ocean. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Mongoose
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:37 Link
Anvh wrote:


There is no way to scan the card since it's just a plastic card with your name, your residence number and a photo.

The proposed cards for the UK will contain an RFID chip.

At every turn in the last few years the UK government has proven itself incapable of storing sensitive data about its citizens in a safe and secure manner. Any and all information the government holds about a British citizen is likely to end up left on a train at some point, so the only sensible course of action is to limit the ammount of data the government has about you as far as possible.

A law abiding citizen in a state with a trustworthy government has nothing to fear from an ID card scheme, but we don't have a trustworthy government.
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Prieni
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:38 Link
Put some tin foil around the ID card and no one will read the RFID tag...

Prieni
How inappropriate to call this planet earth when it is quite clearly Ocean. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Mongoose
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:39 Link
no chance, I need the tin foil for my hat!!
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Father Ted
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:41 Link
Anvh wrote:

There is no way to scan the card since it's just a plastic card with your name, your residence number and a photo.

That is not the type of card being discussed for theUK.They willstore various biometric data onit, DNA etc.

The card will not be compulsory, but we are told it is to prevent terrorism...so tell me, how many terrorists will buy a card?

Also, bear in mind we are the most watched country in the world. There are more CCTV cameras per head of population in the UK than any other country. They have even come up with schemes were members of the public can keep an eye on one another using this CCTV.

Coupled with the government wanting to introduce trackers to all vehicles, developing ANPR technology for all motorways and you can see why there is becoming bad feeling in the UK.

If you didn't know where i was from, you might have presumed I lived in 1980's USSR.
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johnriley
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:45 Link
It's a difficult thing to explain how an ID card is an invasion of privacy, as in UK terms it violates the basic principle that all citizens are free to move around and do anything they like that is not actually proscibed by law. This is not so in many countries.

So ID cards were abolished in the early 1950s (they existed during WWII) as soon as they could be. They offended the British way of life. The other huge invasion of privacy was means testing for benefits, introduced as a way of making sure than no one suffered poverty. The means testing though was seen as demeaning, again contrary to the UK mindset.

Whether or not the current and future generations will se this in the same way is another matter altogether, so we shall have to wait and see.
Best regards, John
PentaxRocks
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:45 Link
Father Ted wrote:
[quote:3496ace15f="Anvh"]


If you didn't know where i was from, you might have presumed I lived in 1980's USSR.

Dos vedanya
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Father Ted
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:47 Link
PentaxRocks wrote:

Dos vedanya

Comrade!!
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Mongoose
Posted 01/12/2009 - 18:48 Link
johnriley wrote:
It's a difficult thing to explain how an ID card is an invasion of privacy, as in UK terms it violates the basic principle that all citizens are free to move around and do anything they like that is not actually proscibed by law. This is not so in many countries.

So ID cards were abolished in the early 1950s (they existed during WWII) as soon as they could be. They offended the British way of life. The other huge invasion of privacy was means testing for benefits, introduced as a way of making sure than no one suffered poverty. The means testing though was seen as demeaning, again contrary to the UK mindset.

Whether or not the current and future generations will se this in the same way is another matter altogether, so we shall have to wait and see.

It's interesting that as recently as the mid 80s the very concept of ID cards in the UK was the stuff of comedy programs. No real UK party would have contemplated the move because they'd have been out of office via the nearest window, without anyone taking the time to open it first.
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Anvh
Posted 02/12/2009 - 11:19 Link
How could I know guys, I don't live in the UK

But like Prieni said I don't hope you've a mobile phone they can quite easily find you

And what's the next step, with little imagination iris scanners that can work from a distance away could easily scan you when you walk past them and they would know that's you.
Maybe some years after that they have find a way to scan DNA now then we could be in a lot of troubles but even now in the UK there are enough CCTV like Father Ted said.

So John I don't see how a simple ID card even with RFID chip can track your movement better then the CCTV's that are hanging above your head, the passive RFID chip in passes have only a range of millimetres. How some here are saying it looks like they can track you half a mile away.
Stefan
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Edited by Anvh: 02/12/2009 - 11:20
pentaxian450
Posted 02/12/2009 - 12:46 Link
Solving your ID problem is really very easy. You just have to move to Canada. YOu can still claim to be British citizens, without the hassle.
Yves (another one of those crazy Canucks)
Edited by pentaxian450: 02/12/2009 - 12:46
Mongoose
Posted 02/12/2009 - 14:55 Link
Anvh wrote:
How could I know guys, I don't live in the UK

But like Prieni said I don't hope you've a mobile phone they can quite easily find you

And what's the next step, with little imagination iris scanners that can work from a distance away could easily scan you when you walk past them and they would know that's you.
Maybe some years after that they have find a way to scan DNA now then we could be in a lot of troubles but even now in the UK there are enough CCTV like Father Ted said.

So John I don't see how a simple ID card even with RFID chip can track your movement better then the CCTV's that are hanging above your head, the passive RFID chip in passes have only a range of millimetres. How some here are saying it looks like they can track you half a mile away.

Perhaps I can explain

You keep fixating on how ID cards can't do us any harm, and perhaps you are right, perhaps we are all paranoid, but the simple fact is that we don't need them. You and the other Europeans have even managed to show that they are unnecessary for many of the nefarious possibilities which have been put forward for them.

They are going to be introduced at vast expense which WE will have to pay for and it will be a total and complete waste of time and money.

If the best anyone can come up with in support of an idea is that it will do no harm, but will cost billions of pounds this country doesn't have, I'm sorry but it takes more than that to convince me.

You have ID cards already, so tell us, what is good about them?
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Anvh
Posted 02/12/2009 - 15:30 Link
They only thing they prove is that you're you and that's good about them and they don't cost extra money for us because we have them for ... I don't know how long already. probably before or around WW2.

One plus is that you can handle things with the police, government faster.

Other one is when you're in an accident that they can identify you.

This one you probably think is a negative one but we have an age limit for certain things, therefore shops/clubs are allowed to ask for an ID to check your age since they would be punishable by law if they sell or allow someone to enter under the age limit.

I can see why some of you in the UK get a bit paranoid because of the nature of the government but I think it's a bit over acted though.
You're the only country where I've heard a negative comment about the ID matter from.

By the way they are thinking of putting an chip on our ID cards as well with our information finger-prints and maybe iris scan and who knows maybe even DNA in the future.
There are negative comments about that though.
Not that they are on those cards really but more that what the government can do with those information since the information could be stored by the government so the detective are getting it to easy so to say...
To be honest I'm of the opinion it might be even good though if it helps against crime... there must be a good law though to be sure to protect the privacy of the innocent ad that might be hard though.
Stefan
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Edited by Anvh: 02/12/2009 - 15:37
Father Ted
Posted 02/12/2009 - 16:17 Link
Couple of points here Stephan.
Our government keeps changing its mind about what the cards are for. That is cause for concern, we are not being told the truth. We were told the cards were to protect us from terrorists, until it was pointed out that the cards won't be compulsory and a terrorist is not likely to buy one. Then we were told they wre to aid us with dealings with companies such as banks, until it was pointed out that a passport will do this. Then we were told that no, really, they are just to make life easier when buying things.
Why are the government so determined we should have these, if they don't know or arent' willing to tell us what good they are?

As for the keeping of DNA is good to fight against crime.We have a system of "Innocent until provenguilty". Even now, people who are arrested are having their DNA sampled and kept by the authorities, even though they are not charged with a crime. If I am innocent then the government has no need to keep my details. This was tested in the EU courts and our government were told they were in breach of human rights' law. Their response? "We'll think about it".
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