Pentax Full Frame, Will it ever happen.

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MattyH

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 08:23
I am aware this is a topic that has been covered many times in the past, but as we are approaching the halfway mark of 2013, surely it cannot be far away that Pentax shows it hand one way or another.

A friend of mine has just sold all his Pentax kit including his new K5iis to purchase a Nikon D600 and the new Sigma 35mm f1.4, as he stated he has been waiting for news on Pentax going full frame for the last 2 years but can wait no longer, as he thinks it may not be here for another 12 months at least.

I would love to prove to him that he has made the wrong decision, but after seeing the photos from his new kit considering the price he paid,(bought of eBay as used but taken less then 1000 shots,for 1650 for both camera and lens), I am feeling a touch jealous, and itchy feet.

Surely Pentax cannot wait to much longer and risk losing customers and revenue from people selling up and moving to Canon/Nikon/Sony who have now established themselfs on the affordable full frame market.

But another train of thought of mine is do you need or just want a Pentax Full Frame camera, I don't need a full frame camera as I don't make a living from photography, its just a hobby, but I do want one, so maybe that's what Pentax is thinking, leave Canon/Nikon to the affordable full frame, Panasonic/Olympus to micro four thirds and Pentax to dominate the APS-C market.

Love to know your thoughts on this hence the Poll and you never know someone from Pentax might just read this

Smeggypants

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 08:43
I think the buy out by Ricoh has put Pentax back a year or so.

MattyH wrote:
..... but after seeing the photos from his new kit considering the price he paid .....

What in particular has excited you about the photos?
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

MattyH

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 09:19
What in particular has excited you about the photos?[/quote]

He is a semi pro photographer who does a lot of low light work, in clubs promoting up and coming bands, he used his new D600 with the sigma 35mm and his K5iis with a 43mm at the same time for the same gig and the picture quality from the full frame camera blew both of us away,

I was always in the frame of mind that full frame was always going to be better but not to the extant that I saw in those pictures from that one night.

To make it clear for the work I do, my K5's are more then fine and will be for years to come, but I would like to see Pentax competing with the big boys so to speak.

What does concern me, as the rate of affordable full frame camera come onto the market many people, like my friend, will switch from Pentax and give their money to someone else, leaving Pentax with less and less money in the pot to bring new products on the market. And if they don't do something, sooner rather then later they may never get those potential customers back again.

You only have to look at Kodak, and Olympus to a lesser extent, as they both made the desicion not to follow the APC-S route and to go their own way.

DrOrloff

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 09:19
Full frame is pretty niche in the grand scheme of things, especially if it is going to aimed at enthusiasts rather than pros with the support network and lens catalogue which that entails and which Pentax don't currently have. The mainstream sectors are more important. Pentax do need to come up with product, it's been pretty slow. But on the other hand you have to give Ricoh time to get the ball rolling. It's less than two years since the takeover and it takes a while to define strategy and restructure the management teams. Then from concept to market takes time. Plus the general feeling was that Hoya weren't that interested in Pentax so probably left the r&d department in not good shape. I don't think anyone should reasonably have expected Pentax to come up with full frame in that limited time. I would say another year yet wouldn't be unreasonable at all. I would rather wait for the right product than have a rushed product, so I think Ricoh are going about it the right way.

I had my concerns about the health of Ricoh as a whole (cameras are only a small part of the overall business) but a large restructuring has returned the company to profit.

They have stated some ambitious aims for the future and from what I've seen are taking a very sensible approach. I think the Ricoh GR is a great product. It will sell like hot cakes and I think it is a game changer in the marketplace. That kind of thinking bodes well for Pentax products.

For any fan of Pentax cameras I think now is exactly the wrong time to be jumping ship. Ricoh is way bigger than Nikon so they have the resources to deliver along with seemingly the will. I have some beautifully constructed lenses that will last me a lifetime. I'm not going to give them up so readily without even giving Ricoh a chance to deliver, seems a bit crazy to me.
You can see some of my photos here if you are so inclined
Last Edited by DrOrloff on 17/05/2013 - 09:22

CMW

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 09:27
MattyH wrote:
A friend of mine has just sold all his Pentax kit including his new K5iis to purchase a Nikon D600 and the new Sigma 35mm f1.4. .... I would love to prove to him that he has made the wrong decision

I'm not sure about 'wrong', but you might get him on 'impulsiveness'. It does seem odd to me to buy a new K5IIs and then almost at once sell it (unless of course he was disappointed in it). The Nikon is a great camera, if a bit of a brick compared to a Pentax. I was recently shooting a similar scene to another photographer; he with a D600, me with a K5. I liked mine so it is now a framed print (almost A2 format). I've only seen his result on screen. Up close you see additional definition, but my impression is that if you looked at both identically printed and hanging on a wall you'd be hard pressed to know which camera was responsible for which, at a normal viewing distance.

If a FF sensor were to be fitted in a camera close to the size of my K5, I'd have it .... but only once I'd had full use of my K5. I don't feel the smaller sensor is a constraint on what I do.
Regards, Christopher

ChristopherWheelerPhotography

MartinEA

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 09:35
All the signs point to a full frame camera being developed. I believe there will be a full frame camera within the next year or at least a date for release. Not so long ago there was the info from/about Tokina who were developing more full frame lenses (a 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2. for Pentax.

I would want/need one as I like to do a lot of low light work and besides weddings at weekends during the week am busy with commercial work. I dropped all my full frame Canon gear which I wouldn't have done unless I was pretty confident of a full frame replacement coming. I can get by no problem with an crop sensor but would like to go to higher ISOs which would be cleaner with more detail.

MattyH

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 09:42
Someone once said, "Pentax keeps you hungry and thirsty but always alive", maybe this could some up the Pentax full frame game plan in a nutshell.

Smeggypants

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 10:46
MattyH wrote:
Quote:
What in particular has excited you about the photos?

He is a semi pro photographer who does a lot of low light work, in clubs promoting up and coming bands, he used his new D600 with the sigma 35mm and his K5iis with a 43mm at the same time for the same gig and the picture quality from the full frame camera blew both of us away,

I was always in the frame of mind that full frame was always going to be better but not to the extant that I saw in those pictures from that one night.

Nothing in particular then?



Quote:

To make it clear for the work I do, my K5's are more then fine and will be for years to come, but I would like to see Pentax competing with the big boys so to speak.

I agree. I may not ever get a Pentax FF camera ( never say never though ) but I do feel that a Pentax FF would help pentax overall
[i]Bodies: 1x K-5IIs, 2x K-5, Sony TX-5, Nokia 808
Lenses: Pentax DA 10-17mm ED(IF) Fish Eye, Pentax DA 14mm f/2.8, Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8, Pentax-A 28mm f/2.8, Sigma 30mm F1.4 EX DC, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.2, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-FA 50mm f/1.4, Pentax-A 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8, Sigma 135-400mm APO DG, and more ..
Flash: AF-540FGZ, Vivitar 283

MattyH

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 11:19
I should elaborate abit more on what we saw in the difference in picture quality between the two cameras, as I can't show you I can only go on words alone.

Both camera did produce fine prints and if we didn't have the full frame camera with us then I doubt I would be commenting on it as the files from the K5 were superb.

But, there was a lot lot less image noice as to be expected from the Nikon once cropped, they were also sharper,bearing in mind there is no sort of stablilization with the nikon set up,
Also the colours were that bit richer, which surprised us both as we thought Pentax would have won that one.

On the whole due to the very difficult lighting situation the nikon did win hence my friends choice to jump ship and join the dark side, but he shoots 90% of his work in those situations where as I shoot 5% in those situations, so what's good for one etc etc...

But I very much doubt that if Pentax bought out a FF frame camera tomorrow, I would not be investing in one for at least a couple of years, but if Pentax are to be taken seriously in the camera market they do need to act now without the fear of being one of the also rans.........

DrOrloff

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 11:27
They have been acting for a while. People's expectations of how long it takes to conceptualise, design and produce a new product are way off the mark. Anyone who has been involved in a multinational business takeover would also appreciate the time taken to integrate a new business. Few seem to appreciate that.
You can see some of my photos here if you are so inclined

MattyH

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 11:41
DrOrloff wrote:
They have been acting for a while. People's expectations of how long it takes to conceptualise, design and produce a new product are way off the mark. Anyone who has been involved in a multinational business takeover would also appreciate the time taken to integrate a new business. Few seem to appreciate that.

I do agree, but Pentax is not a new company to this market, Canon and Nikon have been offering a full frame option for nearly a decade.

What sort of time frame are you thinking, as you are not telling me that when nikon and canon released their first full frame camera to the market all those years ago Pentax thought that it would never catch on.

What I do think is that certain bad decisions have been made due to different buy outs and take overs and the pot has run slightly dry.

carmagw

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 11:43
For me its not the lack of a 'full frame' camera that would cause me to change systems / shoot 2 systems but the availability of lenses and autofocus speed for tracking / my kids running towards me.

If the K5 sensor was in the 7D I would have bought one without any hesitation and would be using my K5 for shorter focal lengths. In fact the K5 was the reason I have not switched systems.

3rd party lens support is a big problem for Pentax, even if people never buy the lens the fact it is there is reassuring. It irks me that the longer Macro lenses are not available in pentax fit along with other new lenses being produced by Sigma.

Also SDM needs to be quicker, if the 'new' parts are quicker than the original SDM motors then please make a specific announcement to allow users to pimp their lens once all the old stock has been cleared (I know they will never do this, wishful thinking). The 50-135, 60-250 and 300 (as good IQ as they all are) could all do with faster AF and often stay at home in preference to the Sigma 50-150, 70-200 and 100-300 which are excellent.


Regards

George

Algernon

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 11:46
It took Olympus about 5 years to design the OM-1 and
that was working flat out. They even brought out a rebadged
stop gap camera to tide them over until it was ready.
Half Man... Half Pentax ... Half Cucumber

Pentax K-1 + K-5 and some other stuff

Algi

MattyH

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 12:03
Algernon wrote:
It took Olympus about 5 years to design the OM-1 and
that was working flat out. They even brought out a rebadged
stop gap camera to tide them over until it was ready.

I know its not ever going to be an over night thing, but we are now in the 21st century where new products are appearing on a monthly basis, you only have to look at firms like Blackmagic and lytro, the technolgy is there and moving at a lot faster pace to when the OM1 was first conceived.

Just don't want Pentax to be left behind and become another Rollie,Praktica or Kodak etc etc......

Stuey

Link Posted 17/05/2013 - 12:40
My fear about going full frame would be to part with all that money and then for 90+% of the time realise that I 'may' have wasted my money as I just didn't need full frame

Yes you got it I am a bit tight and like to hang on to my cash and anything I have has to do the job or I get rid of it - I appreciate that for some full frame will be a real bonus whilst for others it is a want that 'may' truly never turn out to be value for money in terms of 'better images' - just my thoughts/opinion so I amy well be wrong

I do appreaciate that we are all different with different needs and what anyone spends their money on is their business and not mine
K10D, K5 plus plenty of clueless enthusiasm.

My Flickr site link
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